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Arabic Literacy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4890 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 1 of 10 13 June 2014 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Has anyone here taught themselves enough Arabic to become literate? And if so, how did
you do it? I have a rough plan, but I don't know how realistic it is, or even to what level it can bring me. The catch is that Arabic, for me, is an "extra" language. It would be fun and interesting to improve my skills, and I enjoy the little I know, but I'm probably not going to sit down and work through an advanced course like the Madinah series. The (possible) plan: Michel Thomas (Egyptian) - I'm currently using this to review Arabic. It's enjoyable, and a nice confidence booster. Pimsleur I (Egyptian) - I have it and have never used it. This should last me through mid Summer. First choice: Decide that it was fun and call it a day, or push on with either Levantine or MSA ... Pimsleur I-III (Levantine) - I already have this, and have used it before. My first question: Is it too confusing to jump between dialects? I like that this goes to a more advanced level than the Egyptian course. Would it be a nice transition as I move to MSA-based materials? Or too much of a tangent? I only have time for audio courses until the fall, so this is another reason for wanting to stick with Pimsleur, even if I have to switch dialects mid-stream. Living Language Complete (MSA) - I've really like their revamped series in other languages, and their new Arabic course is one of the factors that tempted me to restart the language. and then the big question: Assimil Perfectionnement Arabe (MSA) - I hate hate hated Assimil's L'arabe, but the recordings on the advanced course sound nice - it's pretty, melodious Arabic, not the choking zombie frogs Arabic of L'arabe. My second question: Has anyone done this course? And do you think it's possible to jump from a course like Living Language right into Perfectionnement? Would this be enough to bring someone up to basic literacy? I don't see many Arabic books on kindle, so my usual method of graduating to native materials won't work. Or ... will I really need to suck it up and go through a formal textbook at some point? Edited by kanewai on 13 June 2014 at 10:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5346 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 2 of 10 13 June 2014 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
It seems to me, highly unlikely. In my opinion, you should employ a much higher proportion of proper textbooks. Also, since you are thinking about literacy, so much emphasis on spoken variants is probably not ideal. There are many textbooks out there. The two volumes published by l'Asiathèque for instance are excellent, though sadly not vowelled. The full Linguaphone course is also highly recommended, as are the FSI texts, for which audio cannot be found complete online but supposedly is offered for sale here in full version (I have never ordered from them, so cannot speak on the quality of their products). A New Arabic Grammar of the Written Language by J. A. Haywood, H. M. Nahmad, along with its answer key, is absolutely excellent. Then of course there is al-Kitaab. After having worked your way through a few substantive textbooks, you can avail yourself of as many readers as possible such as this one. The Michel Thomas and Pimsleur approach in my view is wholly lacking if your goal is Arabic literacy.
Relying on technology is hazardous. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4551 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 3 of 10 14 June 2014 at 1:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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If the goal is literacy, clearly the focus should be on MSA, not dialects, as they are
practically never written. I've been planning my own course of Arabic study (to begin when I finish grad school,) in which I intend to focus on learning MSA to a basic level before beginning w/ the Levantine dialect. So I've been researching a lot of courses lately. If you really cannot use anything other than audio at this point, for the goal of eventual literacy it would make more sense to at least use an MSA audio course. One all-audio possibility (which I will be using) is Living Language's Getting Started in Arabic. Then when you have time for some text I guess you could move on to that new LL course you mentioned, which is MSA. I'm planning on using LL's older Complete Arabic: The Basics followed by their Ultimate Arabic. I also plan on using Mastering Arabic: http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Arabic- Audio-CDs-Hippocrene/dp/0781812380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF 8&qid=1402700175&sr=1- 1&keywords=mastering+arabic I think that latter book is your best option for becoming literate in MSA once you're able to focus on textbooks. It's reputed to be excellent, both thorough and accessible, and there's also an intermediate/advanced continuation: Mastering Arabic 2. Check out the reviews for both. EDIT: As to the advanced Assimil course, I of course haven't used it, but I've looked over the advanced Spanish and French courses, and I'm sure that (if it's at that level) you would not be prepared for it after that new LL course. Maybe after LL Ultimate and/or Mastering Arabic 1. I'm not at all a fan of Assimil; their approach doesn't suit my learning style and I find their Gallic humor irritating and distracting. However, I can understand that for certain languages their approach is useful for many. But I can't really imagine that it would be for Arabic. Edited by Gala on 14 June 2014 at 1:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4890 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 4 of 10 14 June 2014 at 5:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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I should clarify ... for me 'basic literacy' is the point where I can start to break
free from texts and books and start using more and more native materials. It'snot my only goal; I don't want to exclude listening and speaking! I've been able to reach a basic speaking level in the past: a strong A1, maybe a weak A2 on a good day. I've never reached a level of understanding any of the complexities or nuances of the language. It's been just the basics, and how to get by. I'm using audio only now because I have some time on my commute where I can work it in. It's fun as a refresher, and in general the path that really works for me has been: audio (MT, Pimsleur) + assimil (for reading and pronunciation) + grammar (FSI, LL, etc) then: work in native materials using a kindle + coursework then: independent reading + coursework This breaks apart for Arabic ... MT, FSI, Assimil, Living Language, etc all use different dialects or versions of 'spoken Arabic.' And even some of the purported MSA materials are actually a colloquial version of MSA (e.g. Teach Yourself). On top of that, the FSI course is not at all user friendly for Arabic, Assimil sucks, and Kindle doesn't have good Arabic texts. The Mastering Arabic looks good; I have that bookmarked too! But the question I still have is: will this get you to a level of using native materials? Or will we still need another year of courses and drills? [side note: the older editions of Living Language are ok, but nothing great. And their audio is very limited. I would give it a pass unless you already have it) Edited by kanewai on 14 June 2014 at 5:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4551 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 5 of 10 15 June 2014 at 12:24am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know and am hoping someone that has more experience will chime in. For myself, if I'm unable to read Arabic texts intended for adult natives after all the courses I've mentioned (including Mastering Arabic 1,) I imagine and hope that I'll at least be able to handle graded readers/parallel texts of various types. I know that there are versions of the Quran designed that way, f.e. And did you check out the reader that Juan linked to? I would think that such materials could bridge the gap between beginner courses and native materials. I normally don't object to using an advanced course before or along with native materials, but I'm resistant to the idea of having to do so for MSA, because I'll want to begin focusing on the Levantine dialect at that point. As to the LL courses, I got them out of the library and ripped the audio, so the only expense involved is getting cheap used editions of the books for Complete: The Basics and Ultimate. My library doesn't have the new LL courses, and anyway I gather that the Ultimate goes rather further in terms of level. It also has 5 dialect lessons each and a phrasebook-type CD each for 4 dialects (including Egyptian and Levantine) as well as the 15 MSA lessons that it starts with. And I have several other audio courses planned for later that focus strictly on Levantine. I think the MSA audio from the LL courses will be sufficient for my purposes. I've already downloaded the Pimsleur Eastern Arabic from library copies. I decided to focus on Levantine rather than Egyptian because, although the latter has more speakers globally (and is of course widely understood due to media influence,) the vast majority of Arab-Americans hail or descend from the Levant. I doubt if I'll ever travel throughout the Arabic world, but I already frequent Lebanese groceries and restaurants. The preponderance of Levantine native speakers in this country is something you might want to factor into your consideration of whether to study that dialect in addition to Egyptian (or maybe even switch over!)There is also a Lebanese film/TV industry, 2nd only in scale and influence to the Egyptian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4652 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 6 of 10 15 June 2014 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is, I believe, unavoidable when you're learning Arabic. Nearly no one speaks 'pure' MSA, it's always somewhat colloquial, and if you try the Quran, like Gala mentioned, it's in another variety too. The main problem is that FSI/Assimil etc. fail to communicate which colloquial variety they are influenced by (Levantine/Egypian/Maghrebi). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Talib Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6662 days ago 171 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (classical) Studies: Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 7 of 10 19 June 2014 at 1:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't think it is necessary to limit oneself to audio programs if the goal is Arabic literacy although this assumes that one already knows how to pronounce the Arabic script correctly. You might even try to aim for reading comprehension of the first volume of Assimil without using the recordings.
It would be worth finding some materials that have all of the vowel markings and either vocabulary lists or translations of the passages because that will save time from having to constantly use the dictionary. Edited by Talib on 19 June 2014 at 1:23am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Al-Malik Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member United Kingdom arabicgenie.com Joined 7135 days ago 221 posts - 294 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German*, Spanish, Arabic (Written), Dutch, French, Arabic (classical) Studies: Mandarin, Persian | Message 8 of 10 26 June 2014 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
While I agree that there are certain influences of dialects on MSA, this is usually in the form of pronunciation and not so much as regards grammar or other substantive parts of the language (at least in the case of educational materials). When it comes to MSA text books the language is usually fairly "standard" and not too influenced by the dialect of the authors. Which Teach Yourself version are you referring to? There is a version for Gulf Arabic, but the "standard" book editions I have seen seem to contain quite acceptable MSA. On the question of literacy, I would recommend: - any textbook that can bring you up to an advanced beginners level - the Al Kitaab Fi-t Taallum... series, especially books 2 and 3 - Assimil L'Arabe (I personally prefer the older version) and Perfectionnement Arabe - the Al Kitaab Al Assaasi series, part two (and three if you're interested in classical/literary stuff) - The Arab News by Fred Pragnell if you're interested in political and economic/finance news Of course, at the same time you'll want to try your hand at authentic materials "in the wild" as soon as possible and regularly. Edited by Al-Malik on 26 June 2014 at 4:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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