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Ladino | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5135 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 9 of 12 29 June 2014 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
How so? I'm genuinely curious as to what difference(s) this history would have due to language or dialect classification. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5788 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 10 of 12 29 June 2014 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's very, very unfair. As a matter of fact you have already changed my mind considerably on the matter based on your post. I even said as much. You go and feel morally superior if you want, though. It's your loss, not mine, because I will continue to enjoy your posts and learn from you regardless of your patronising comment. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5788 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 11 of 12 29 June 2014 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
I find it extraordinary that after 500 years of separation and cultural divergence that the languages/dialects are so similar. Is it a story of how a subculture preserved a Spanish within the Ottoman Empire, or one of how !5 Century Spanish branched off into two separate (very closely related) languages because of the expulsion? Either way it's an extraordinary story, just slightly different. Edited by Random review on 29 June 2014 at 9:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4555 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 12 of 12 30 June 2014 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My understanding is that, while some disagreement does exist as to whether Ladino is a
separate language or a dialect of Spanish, the general consensus among scholars of the language is that it's the latter. Their very name for it, judeoespañol (the preferred term, as "ladino" was originally used to describe the language as it appeared in sacred texts which had been translated word-for-word from the original Hebrew, and would therefore be quite different from the natural spoken language) points to it being a variety of Spanish. Most of the speakers themselves designate it as "espanyol" (though sometimes also as "judezmo".) We briefly studied the history and linguistic features of judeoespañol in a graduate- level Spanish linguistics course I took last semester, and the professor always spoke of it as a dialect/variety (the latter being the more PC term many linguists now use) of Spanish. It's certainly true that it incorporated many loan-words from other languages, but (according to our course-readings,) many of the ways in which it differs from modern Spanish result not from that or other divergent tendencies but rather from its retention of words and other linguistic features which it shared with 15th century Spanish (which it was then virtually indistinguishable from in its spoken form, according to contemporary accounts) but have been lost in other modern varieties of the language. I still have a copy of one of the English course readings dealing w/judeoespañol from the class; it's a chapter from a book called Exploring the Spanish Language. Its title- "Spanish or not?"- points to the fact that there must indeed be controversy as to whether it is, but the reading itself doesn't really address (or give importance to) that question, except in its beginning, which reads thus: "In this chapter we will examine a number of languages which may in some respects all be considered varieties of Spanish, but which to a greater or lesser extent are further removed from the various Spanish standards (whether in the Peninsula or Latin America) than any of the regional varieties we have so far considered." I would agree that its differences are greater in number and scope than those between, say, the Spanish of Madrid and that of Guadalajara, but how on earth could it be as different as Italian (or even Portuguese... further, Catalán) when it evolved, not from Latin, but directly from the Castilian Spanish of less than 600 years ago? Geographical and historical circumstances can indeed speed-up the process of linguistic change, but not to that extent. Edited by Gala on 30 June 2014 at 5:56pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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