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German Subjunctive | ||
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3912 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 1 of 7 07 July 2014 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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For subjunctive I, am I right in my understanding that it is primarily used to express doubt from the one who is making the statement?
Examples: -er sagt, er geht nach Hause. (Indicative; the one making the statement has no doubt that the man is going home) -er sagt, er gehe nach Hause. (Subjunctive; the one making the statement doubts whether the man is going home) Do I have this right? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5325 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 2 of 7 07 July 2014 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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Verbs that express uncertainty do not require the subjunctive in German; the German subjunctive is primarily used with reported speech.
For example: 1. Ich weiß nichts davon. => Er sagte er wisse nichts davon. 2. Ich wusste davon nichts. => Er sagte er habe davon nichts gewusst. For more examples, see this website. Note that the subjunctive is rarely used in spoken German. It's usually replaced with "dass" + indicative: 1. Ich weiß nichts davon. => Er hat gesagt, dass er davon nichts weiß. 2. Ich wusste davon nichts. => Er sagte/hat gesagt, dass er davon nichts wusste/gewusst hat. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5604 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 3 of 7 07 July 2014 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think you try to use French language logic:
Je doute qu'il aille à la maison. But the German conjunctive is another animal, as Doitsujin already explained. The present conjunctive is nearly totally reserved for reportet speech, its marginal use for wishes (Dein Reich komme, dein Wille geschehe) or mild orders (Man nehme Salz und Pfeffer und mische es dem Teig unter) becomes obsolete or fossilised. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4849 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 4 of 7 07 July 2014 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | ||
This is unfortunately incorrect. Both sentences mean the same, the one using indicative being more colloquial than the one using subjunctive (Konjunktiv I). Doubt is expressed by using Konjunktiv II: "Er sagt, er wäre nach Hause gegangen." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| alexraasch Diglot Groupie Germany alexraasch.de Joined 6462 days ago 52 posts - 52 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 5 of 7 24 July 2014 at 12:15am | IP Logged | ||
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Josquin, that's not right. The two sentences express different things and it's exactly
as soclydeza said. Subjunctive (or Konjunktiv I) expresses doubt or neutrality. Paul sagte, er sei nach Hause gegangen. = ..., dass er ... gegangen sei. This reports Paul's statement without confirming or denying it. This is exactly what subjunctive in German is for. It's different from saying Paul sagte, er ist nach Hause gegangen. = ..., dass er ... gegangen ist. This indicates that the statement is believed to be true. Any good news reporter will always say Kanzlerin Merkel sagte, die Maut werde eingeführt. instead of Kanzlerin Merkel sagte, dass die Maut eingeführt wird. thereby remaining in a position of neutrality. The problem is that most native German speakers don't know about subjunctive and never use it. Part of the reason is that many subjunctive forms are indistinguishable from the indicative, and even worse that you can use a konjunktiv II form to replace konjunktiv I in such cases! No offense, but subjunctive is mostly used by more educated people for the exact reason why it exists. (No, I don't usually use it. :-)) Subjunctive is also called the "possibility form", meaing what is said may be true or not. Konjunktiv II is also called the "impossibility form", meaning what is said is (likely) false or impossible. Ich wünschte, er wäre hier. (But he's not.) Merkel sagte, sie hätte die Maut eingeführt. (But she didn't.) Wenn die Sonne schiene, ginge ich an den Strand. (But the sun doesn't shine.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4849 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 6 of 7 24 July 2014 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | ||
... which is the reason why I said reported speech with indicative is a colloquial version of the officially correct usage of subjunctive in reported speech. In theory, you might be right that subjunctive and indicative convey different nuances of meaning, but in practice a lot of people don't differentiate between the two concepts any more. You will never hear subjunctive in colloquial speech! It's only used in written language. I tried to approach the problem from a descriptive point of view while you're using a prescriptive approach. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| alexraasch Diglot Groupie Germany alexraasch.de Joined 6462 days ago 52 posts - 52 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 7 of 7 25 July 2014 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I didn't mean to be prescriptive but I understand you've got the impression. You're
absolutely right that indicative is a colloquial substitute for subjunctive. I was referring to your statement that both sentences mean the same, which they don't. Actually, you can hear people use the subjunctive even in colloquial speech, although admittedly not very often. It's just not "never". Some time ago, I even heard a 10 year old use subjunctive during a TV interview. Needless to say, I was a stunned. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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