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Output Super Challenge? | ||
Tags: Super Challenge | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Polyana Newbie United Kingdom Joined 3711 days ago 2 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Spanish | Message 9 of 21 20 February 2015 at 5:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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As there is a while before next year, why not get a basic outline together of what
constitutes a 'page' or an 'hour' of output and run a 6 week mini-challenge to help iron out any problems ? Once the first 6WC was over the rules could be looked at and revised if necessary, and at least another could run before next year too, to get people into it, before launching the super-challenge next year. I think it's a great idea to run an output challenge. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5206 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 10 of 21 20 February 2015 at 9:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I like the idea. I'm also not convinced about the recording 100 hours part: it's a hell of a lot to time to record, especially compared to writing 100 pages, and it could get technically difficult as Stelle says. But I realise it was just an idea, not a final decision, and I can see where it comes from as I've found recording useful.
I actually did my own version of the Super Challenge first time round: 100 and, instead of the books, 100 hours of conversation. Looking back, that was quite a flawed idea too: difficult to measure; doesn't necessarily measure output since, especially as a beginner/intermediate, conversation is more listening than speaking; and too easy - I did the 100 hours in a couple of months while the films took the best part of a year. But I'm sure we can come up with something speaking-related that works! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5235 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 11 of 21 20 February 2015 at 10:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I did think of another rule which from the Super Challenge discussions I think would be important and that is you can only signup with one language. If you complete the challenge in before the time is up, you can signup with a second language.
I can see the objection to recording skype sessions, etc. But originally I was thinking of just your basic "talking head" recording where you put a microphone in front of your mouth and talk. The editing part came up when someone started asking what counts. I'm beginning to feel Sofrid's (Cristina's) pain now. :) But you could just add up the minutes you speak during a skype conversation, you don't have to edit and publish. It is an honour system after all, if you put your finger in the air and guess that you spoke for 25 minutes out of 60 I'm ok with that. If you want to do a film with full post production video thats cool too.
You are right to suggest caution, the problem is I'm a "let the chips fall where they may" sort of person. :) But if we iron out the rules, and people want caution first we'll go with that.
Yes I was thinking the same thing. 100 hours is two and a half full-time work weeks for most people. Don't discount the difficulty of the writing 25,000 words however. The nanowrimo thing where you write a novel is 50,000 words in your native language and people STILL can't manage it! But you're right in comparison to the speaking a 250 word page would be trivial. So if I proposed the following rules, would anyone like to see a modification? (Caution to the winds!) Output Challenge: - Runs for 10 months from Mar-Dec. - 100 pages, 500 words equals 1 page. - 100 hours of recorded speech (only minutes you are speaking count) - You can only signup for one language at a time. We unfortunately don't have a niffy bot to keep track and show a league table, so it would have to be the old fashion way of logbooks and thread postings when you hit a milestone. One other thought I had, was because the forum categories which are dedicated to specific languages don't a lot of traffic, this might be a chance to post your text to them for corrections. Maybe a "Output Challenge Correction Thread" in each language category? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4143 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 12 of 21 20 February 2015 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Ah, I see! I misunderstood your original intention. This is interesting! I'm not sure I would do it (like Iguanamon, I'm not fond of hearing/seeing myself on video), but I definitely see the value! I learn fastest when my input and output are balanced. By balanced, I don't mean 50/50, since I'm not in an immersion situation and any interaction with natives has to be planned out. I'd say that the ideal ratio for me right now is somewhere around 25% conversation to 75% input - so an hour of conversation for every three hours of reading or listening. It's hard to do that right now, with only one or two hours on Skype per week and a complete aversion to writing in Spanish. I love the idea of a challenge focused on increasing output. I think it would be just what I need to push my language skills up a notch. I would definitely sign up for the writing challenge. I think that I would opt out of the speaking challenge, since I just can't imagine myself recording 100 hours of speech. I'd be more likely to aim for 100 hours of conversation (without cutting it down and counting minutes), but at only 2 hours per week, that wouldn't really be a massive challenge. I look forward to seeing where you go with this! Edited by Stelle on 20 February 2015 at 12:27pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 13 of 21 20 February 2015 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm very excited by this idea. It's something that has been a long time coming. I do think, however, that
100 hours of recorded speech is way too much and too complicated to compile. If we were to say 100 hours of interaction with native speakers, then it becomes much simpler. This would include time spent listening to the other person. So 30-minute conversation would count for 30 minutes even though you actually spoke for only 17 minutes. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5235 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 14 of 21 20 February 2015 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yeah that is a good point. But what about people who struggle to find Native speakers to talk to? I would personally find it really difficult to find Mandarin speakers in my area, and to find someone willing to talk with me for what amounts to 2.5 working weeks would really be a struggle. The lower the level of your language the worse it becomes, because you simply cannot sustain that sort of time. Conversations when you are at a level of B2-C1 should count, but I wouldn't want to exclude beginners from taking up the challenge. I'm willing to concede a language exchange with a native where you are conversing in the target language for say a 30 minute period could count, but what happens if you speak for only 5 minutes of the conversation and the other person rattles on for 25 minutes? I think it would be reasonable to include conversations with native speakers as long as you speak for 50% or more of the conversation. But look, even if you did a talking head video saying only "Merci" for 100 hours I would say your following the rules, but not the spirit of an Output Challenge. But in your example 17 minutes out of 30 I think would be well within the spirit of the challenge. I would prefer recorded as well, but perhaps I'm being overly pedantic. Opinions? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4582 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 15 of 21 20 February 2015 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have no idea where I would find anyone to talk to at all. Does talking to yourself
count? :D I also don't know what audacity is or how I would record a Skype conversation, so I think rdearman might need to start the challenge thread with some technical instructions! I don't know what a reasonable target would be for speaking but I don't think there's any harm in setting it at 100 hours and seeing where everyone ends up after 10 months. If the challenge were run again it could then be modified, the same way that I think the Super Challenge reading target has been changed this time around. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 16 of 21 20 February 2015 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You have to do it in a month (November). I know people who've done it. I'm interested but the amount feels unnecessary as of now. I might do an unofficial challenge covering all my languages (apart from English). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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