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A theory on language learning | ||
Tags: Language Acquisition Theory | Music | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Tyrion101 Senior Member United States Joined 3912 days ago 153 posts - 174 votes  Speaks: French | Message 1 of 23 21 February 2015 at 5:12am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've been thinking about why I seem to be good at learning languages, and I think partly as a classical
musician you are exposed to a variety of different languages to start with, and not only that, I've always viewed each musical piece as a language, or its own world, with its own rules. The composer Mahler said that was how he viewed his pieces, as creating worlds, and that's alway stuck with me. Music takes a long time to master, though you can learn some pieces quickly, it takes time to master the nuances. I think that all of these factors make me good at the language learning process, it seems very similar to how you learn music. So do musicians tend to have a better than average success at learning a language or more than one? Or am I way off with my theory? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4948 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 2 of 23 21 February 2015 at 6:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm sure it helps you, both in your conceptualization of language and in your seeking patterns and nuances. So I'm sure having a musical background and all that entails can be applied in many aspects of language learning.
That said, while I played the piano between the ages of 8-11, and learned some music theory, I have completely forgotten music theory and I can barely one-finger "happy birthday" on a keyboard. I can't sing for my life, and I don't particularly care about "musical" matters at this time. Yet, I can't say I thus far have not had a better than average success, since I have learned 3 languages and on my way to 4. I think it's 15% background (growing up monolingual or plurilingual), 10% natural-born talent for language acquisition, 25% time availability, and 50% discipline/tenacity/practice. I'll bet on a mulish individual without language learning talent or much free time, but with discipline and tenacity, over someone with all the talent and time in the world who is a quitter... anytime! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4443 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 3 of 23 21 February 2015 at 7:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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As a musician who plays violin & piano in a local band, I have a good memory and can
play many pieces off my head without reading music. Playing music for me is a good exercise for the brain. It improves my listening skills as well as my hands & eye coordination. Having a good memory helps with remembering words & phrases. Other than that music has a limited range of vocabulary. We would come across many Italian terms like tempo, allegro, adagio, lento, presto, poco rit, con brio, concerto grosso, etc. These are single words & phrases. Everyone in my music group would recognize these terms but how many of us are actually fluent in Italian? The few that are ethnic Italians probably speak the language at home but otherwise we have Koreans, E. Europeans, Chinese and others in the music group who can't speak Italian. Music is a language on its own with many strange symbols made up of circles and lines on a staff. On the left you would see another strange symbol: the Treble or Bass Clef. How does looking at music notation relate to language learning? It's brain exercise but does not have a direct link to language learning. Yes, music does require a lot of focus and concentration. The piece I am working on a piano keyboard is "Little Fugue" BWV 578 by Bach. The version I got has 4 pages. I managed to learn 1 page a week. This week I am down to the last page and it will take me about 3 days. Like learning a language, in the beginning it would take you longer to become familiar with the melody and the different sections of the piece. After that it gets easier. At first you only know a few words & phrases in a language. As you start to familiarize yourself with the pronunciation, grammar, vocabulary, etc., it would take less time to acquire new words & phrases. I started off with Cantonese as a mother tongue. By the time I started to acquire English & Mandarin as my second and third, I had not made any connection to my music playing. In my younger days I was playing simple songs like "Likely Row", "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" on a recorder. Today I routinely play "English" and "French" Suites by Bach on a keyboard and Symphonies of Mozart, Haydn & Beethoven on a violin. When I am playing, I would be focused on getting the right notes, dynamics, and keeping a steady beat but don't normally think about how music would benefit learning a new language. Edited by shk00design on 21 February 2015 at 7:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 4 of 23 21 February 2015 at 7:28am | IP Logged | |||||
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correlation =/= causation. there are plenty people that are good at languages and are
also good at music, but that doesn't mean either is a prerequisite for the other. And there are plenty people that are great at language and are tone deaf... like... most of humanity. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tangleweeds Groupie United States Joined 3574 days ago 70 posts - 105 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Irish, French | Message 5 of 23 21 February 2015 at 7:48am | IP Logged | |||||
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A similarity I noticed today between language study and music is that, like musical earworms stuck in your head, language study gives me phrases or sentences from my latest
lessons repeating in my head as I go about my day. It can be handy with fresh material, because I'll remember the rhythm of the phrase clearly, but notice as it repeats that I'm unclear on a word here or there. I think good auditory skills could help one's hearing of another language, and precise hearing plus rhythmic skills could help one develop a better accent. I'm still an aspiring musical learner though. Childhood piano lessons ended badly, but I returned to playing music in middle age. As a language re-beginner also, it might be interesting to observe possible parallels in these learning processes. ETA: I had very little childhood exposure to music, and am a slow musical learner. My mother taught me a little French and we travelled in Europe when I was around three, and I went on to excel at languages at school. Another correlation that makes it tempting to suspect causation, but it's really just anecdotal. Edited by tangleweeds on 21 February 2015 at 8:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5307 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 6 of 23 21 February 2015 at 7:51am | IP Logged | |||||
Egg first or music first or language first...? I think language learning is at least 50% hard work and persistence - no matter how smart you are, there're 10000 words to memorise, 500 grammar rules to practise, 20 books to read at least, etc. As for the rest, at school I was good at every academic subject, and I assume other good language learners were good at school, too. I believe it'd be rare to see a person who had no clue at school, to learn a language faster than average, writing in good grammar and spelling properly. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5307 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 7 of 23 21 February 2015 at 7:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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Btw, OP can start a poll, asking members to rate themselves:
above average @ languages, above average @ music below average @ languages, above average @ music above average @ languages, below average @ music below average @ languages, below average @ music I'm curious to see whether the votes for "above average @ languages" and "below average @ languages" would be similar. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 8 of 23 21 February 2015 at 8:07am | IP Logged | |||||
I know school dropouts who are great at languages. School dropouts don't necessarily suck at school, they may just not be interested. I suffered from low motivation and my grades could have been much better, I just didn't care enough. And I graduated from university. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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