|
 |
A theory on language learning | ||
Tags: Language Acquisition Theory | Music | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4101 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 17 of 23 23 February 2015 at 12:05am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
That's a good question. I see what you're saying, but I'd consider that jumping to conclusions. Personally I think there's a very big difference between being good or talented at something and experiencing success in the initial stages of something that one has never tried to properly master or never succeeded with advancing in. In my school years, there was very little I couldn't do better than most of my peers the second I tried. Sadly, it hasn't all translated into immense talent for anything and everything. Far from it. My talent usually disappeared without a trace when I moved on to more advanced levels, a sometimes rather rude awakening. Since we mentioned art, that's one example: when I was younger everyone marvelled at my art, from relatives to peers, who sometimes flocked around me at lunch for quickly commissioned drawings, but as I grew older the stakes were raised, every single work I turned in, regardless of teacher, came back with the same critique. Apparently, I my technique was very good but nothing else about my art was good. My peers, meanwhile, had caught up and their art had all kinds of things that my "good technical skills" could not replicate. Likewise, it's entirely possible to have lots of success compared to one's peers with the early stages of language learning, but to struggle and seemingly lose all advantage when other skills are required and there is more than a handful of rules and words to keep in mind. That said, obviously one is free to decide for themselves that they are not jumping to conclusions and everyone is free to consider where their success or lack of success derives from. I'd just advise people against creating and presenting theories about what makes a great high jumper based entirely on their own background, just because they're enthusiastic about their own beginner jumps even if they've never tried to or are still struggling to get to intermediate. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4446 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 18 of 23 23 February 2015 at 5:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Anyway, Classical music can be very repetitive. The same goes with popular music. You have the same
melody repeating half-dozen times with different lyrics. Learning a difficult piece require a lot of focus and concentration. The same can be said about learning a language which involves repeating the same words & phrases until they get into your head. In the beginning your repertoire will be simple like "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star", "Lightly Row" and the we move up to "Minuet in G", "Rondo alla Turca" and then progressing to sonatas & concertos. Each level of difficulty builds on the previous level and gets progressively more difficult. Like learning a language, if you take a break, your level can drop until you pick it up again. Over Christmas members of our family had dinner together. In the group there were at least 4 individuals who passed their Gr. 6 piano exams. There was a keyboard in the room but nobody volunteered to play it. They must be out of practice for at least 5 years. Playing in a band is very much a social affair. We practice music together and socialize afterwards. But piano is mostly a solo instrument you play at home. I don't usually follow a piano learning book with many songs at the same level but tend to download sheet music of longer pieces at the intermediate or advance level. Languages are used as forms of communications. It takes at least 2 people to start a communication. If you don't use a language or keep to yourself at the back, you will not maintain a high fluency. Edited by shk00design on 23 February 2015 at 5:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4310 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 19 of 23 23 February 2015 at 9:23am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
This is the same as I feel, though with opposite terminology, and I tried to separate the two in my post as well. I believe that "talent" - as it is daily used - is best translated to your second definition. Some other word, "enthusiasm" or "motivation" best fits what you´re calling "talented." "Good at" sounds more indiscriminate - whether it be mostly from innate talent or from dedicated effort. I certainly wouldn't put "talented" and "good at" in the same box, at any rate, since they seem to me to imply independent qualities. For example, I wrote "I am talented but bad at art" and I don't think that this is paradoxical to say. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 23 23 February 2015 at 9:46am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I have dabbled a wee bit in languages, and I have also played, composed and listened to music (mostly classical instrumental music). With this background I would say that there are some general personality traits which may come in handy for both activities, like perseverance, attention to details, ability to think and plan inside your mind etc. ... and a good memory would also help. But these things are general in nature, and if you ask whether I use any relation between language and music in a more specific way I doubt that it is the case.
The most obvious overlap between these two activities is of course found in the form of vocal music, but I prefer instrumental music - maybe the overlap has actually bothered me. Insofar there is a link between playing an instrument (or singing) and language it would be in the form of speaking a language, but not so much in writing it (OK, there is a ting called calligraphy, but excellence in that discipline would probably be related to an aptitude for art rather than music). But I don't care too much about pretty speaking and perfect accent, so precisely the elements that would relate the two spheres are medium to low priority for me. The most specific relation between my language learning and music would be in a rather specialized field, namely the ability to think in foreign languages (and plan the structure of written works) and the ability to think new music, i.e. composing. Right now I'm revising an old cello concerto so I have for a brief spell revived an old defunct hobby, but in this music polluted world it is hard to find peace and quiet for composing so I don't intend to keep on writing new works for the dust bin. But I can recognize the planning and construction phases (based on activities purely inside your head), even though one set of activities is based on musical structures and the other on linguistic ones. Edited by Iversen on 23 February 2015 at 1:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4101 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 21 of 23 23 February 2015 at 10:58am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, I know that you differentiated them and I did not intend for "good" and "talented" to necessarily have the same definition, rather my intent was to put "talented" on the same side as "good" in this particular argument. I.e., regardless of whether you think that "talent" is some kind of innate god-given or genetically-given gift that you're born with, that's not something you discover at an absolute beginner's level. The only thing you'll discover at the beginner's level is that you have a "talent" for the beginner's level. Edit: Although, I suppose that can be understood as me simply disagreeing with the definition of "talent". Just like you, I don't think it's contradictory to say that one is "talented" at art, but simultaneously "bad" at it (i.e. I have a talent, but I'm not using it in a productive way or I don't have the patience for it). But, I don't think showing exceptional promise compared to others at one level, that which is often taken for "talent" (especially after a few family members say "it runs in the family" and a teacher or two pays special attention) necessarily translates to later levels. That is to say, a seemingly innate talent for the skills necessary at the beginner level does not necessarily mean talent sufficient for intermediate or mastery levels, even with effort, in which case I'd stay away from proclaiming a general talent in [subject area], since that is generally understood as a talent covering all of the subject area. Interesting thought this is, we're really getting off topic here and should wrap it up. :) I don't mean to shut you down. Feel free to have the last word — I'll read it and ponder it, but I won't answer here in this thread so as to avoid derailing it completely. Edited by eyðimörk on 23 February 2015 at 11:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 22 of 23 23 February 2015 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
What's good at school in that context? I mean, they're just good at talking to human beings and extrapolating context. School often tests rote memorization - they may be bad at that. They may be good at it - just not motivated. In short, I don't know. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4446 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 23 of 23 23 February 2015 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
The last thing for learning languages is a good ear. Someone who is good at playing
music also has a perfect pitch. Being able to distinguish between an A, A-sharp & A- flat by ear will help you distinguish between the various sounds of a language. I know 2 people who used to play guitar & trumpet. While living in Canada they were taking Latin, French & German in school. They eventually moved to Europe and picked up several others including Spanish, Dutch & Italian. They eventually gave up playing music because of their busy schedule. In their case, being close to native speakers helped them to acquire new languages. I played violin in high school but had trouble with my French. Like playing music, you need a lot of exposure to a language to be successful learning it. Back in 1985, there was the tricentenary since the birth of the composers Bach & Handel. Many of their pieces were aired on radio. Since then fell in love with the Little Fugue in G minor (BWV 578). Over the years I've listened to the piece half-dozen times. Recently I went by a music store and picked up a copy of the score. In just 2 weeks I got into playing the piece from top to bottom. You develop listening skills by hearing to the performance / recording of a piece many times like listening to a audio recording of someone talking in a foreign language. Playing music is like the communication aspect of learning a new language. You have some idea what a song sounds like and try to reproduce something similar on a piano or another instrument. Edited by shk00design on 23 February 2015 at 5:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
