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The correct way to use FSI French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 33 of 44 05 May 2007 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
Based on my experience with FSI Spanish, as well as reading the experiences of others with FSI French, I can see some challenges to mastering one humungous course such as FSI French before expanding your circle of learning material. The FSI courses are best suited to sequential learners, those who love drills, and those who aren't put off by bland material. That isn't everyone. I understand that the approach I put forth suggests that one is going to study a couple of hours each day. One of those hours you're doing something else you'd already be doing whether you were studying French or not, so although it's still a hefty time investment, the goal is to reach a reasonable level of proficiency in a couple of years. That level of proficiency is going to take a lot of hours of study, and then the questions are: 1) What can I stick with? 2) What's interesting and available? 3) How do I get the big picture view? 4) How can I have several successes along the way? Another word that needs clarification is the word "mastery". In Ardaschir's world, "mastery" of an Assimil course involved internalizing the contents of a course and being able to replay the advanced lessons to himself out loud in the shower. I enjoyed montyd's comments on how to use FSI French. There are some parts of the course that he suggests to learn by heart, and others where he suggests a token effort. That's probably wise counsel. When I think of mastery, I sometimes wonder if my own expectations are counter-productive. For instance, is it really productive to repeat a drill dozens of times (over the course of a couple years) to get it down perfectly? Perhaps it is. I've done a boatload of drilling, and I'm not done yet. On the Assimil front, is it worthwhile spending an hour on each lesson so one can shadow speakers who talk very quickly and have an accent that may not be used where you live? I've done that too. I don't think I've finished that path either. In defense of the curriculum I outlined above, I'd like to add: a) Pimsleur only takes a half hour per day. One could do it while commuting, if one's lot in life involves a solitary trip by auto. 4 months and this component of your study is complete. b) Depending on the level one wants to achieve from each lesson, Assimil takes only 10-30 minutes per day in a language like French. You complete the first course in 6 months or so. You can review all of the lessons in a few hours. The second course can be completed in 6 months as well. So, on the Assimil front, you have a completion milestone at approximately 6 months and 1 year. Review time for Assimil is mercifully short. These reviews could take place throughout your 2nd year of study. c) French in Action, if done while exercising, doesn't take any additional time from your day. One can cycle through all the videos several times over the course of a year and have mini milestones of accomplishment. d) One can give 15 minute per day to Le Petit Nicolas by Sempé/Goscinny and have this book internalized in a few months. e) FSI French is the big beast. You'll have the mini-milestones of completing a unit about once a month. One can use the strategy that montyd outlined on page one of this thread. The graduation ceremony for this course is quite a ways out though. Hopefully the other milestones of accomplishment are holding you in good stead while you slog through this monster. I left out the small grammar which Linguamor and Farley both suggested. It would probably be smart to include one. Edited by luke on 06 May 2007 at 6:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6551 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 34 of 44 05 May 2007 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
frankfeld, your language list is also very impressive. I admit that trying to impress people is one of my motivations, so you've fueled my fires a bit, and I thank you. I suspect you're right about honing in on what works for me. My beliefs on the following may differ with yours, however. I think we all start out approximately the same, learner-type wise. We develope learning techniques over many years, and essentially make a rut that's somewhat hard to get out of. But not impossible. I believe I could change my techniques drastically. But is there time, or motivation, to surpass, or even reach, my current learning efficiency level with these new methods? I have no idea. I've never even read about any studies on this. You? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6944 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 35 of 44 06 May 2007 at 12:20am | IP Logged | |||||
I haven't thought much about this, so I have no beliefs to differ with. I do, however, think there is one additional factor, memory, which does seem to vary considerably among individuals. Given that by all accounts vocabulary acquisition is the most time-consuming aspect of language learning, it's not how we acquire grammar, but how we end up with adequate vocabulary that matters the most. Adequate comprehensible input may well guarantee not only an intuitive feel for the grammar, but also adequate vocabulary, but it does not guarantee the rate of vocabulary acquisition, which may well turn out to be too slow without additional memorization techniques for some learners. I am not sure this is just a matter of falling into some type of rut over the years - there may be real differences among individuals. The success of some type of "passive" (or, if you wish, "comprehensible input") program may also depend on whether one can find enough materials for a sufficiently gently graded collection - it would make the task of not opening a dictionary all the time a lot easier. My current impression, which is still under investigation, is that this may be the key to avoiding flashcards and such in my case. (Ardashir's bilingual readers approach may also come handy here.) It sort of makes sense; if one has to jump from introductory to full-blown unabridged sources right away, it's hard to do without not only looking up a lot of words, but also recording and reviewing them frequently. Those who want to go after hard-core original sources ASAP will probably find it difficult to avoid some type of deliberate memorization. Edited by frenkeld on 06 May 2007 at 12:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7093 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 36 of 44 06 May 2007 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
Is there a movie or a book that you know lines by heart just because you liked it and not because you made note cards of it? John 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6944 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 37 of 44 06 May 2007 at 11:52am | IP Logged | |||||
If the other "learning material" is readers, books, newspapers, movies, and TV, or even a grammar book, it's one thing, but if it's another course to be used in parallel with FSI, I would have to ask whether FSI is the right choice of the foundational course for that learner, since it is, after all, supposed to be fairly comprehensive already. I was, however, thinking in terms of less time-consuming courses, or even just textbooks. The fundamental approach is something like what Linguamor described for Assimil in another thread:
but doing it an interleaved manner with several courses/textbooks at once. I tried it with German and found it counterproductive, so if I feel like doing more than one course at some point, I will do them sequentially. Edited by frenkeld on 06 May 2007 at 11:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 38 of 44 06 May 2007 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
Leaving out FSI French would be blasphemous in a thread entitled "The correct way to use FSI French". ;) You are right though. If I was to drop one component of the program, it would be FSI French. One could always dive into it after completing the other courses. Perhaps the other components of French in Action would be a better way to flesh out the program. Edited by luke on 28 July 2007 at 9:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6551 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 39 of 44 06 May 2007 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
Tons. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7093 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 40 of 44 06 May 2007 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
Then you have nothing to worry about learning French "passively". Just convince yourself that FIA is the best TV series ever written, for the better part of a year, and the program will work in a similar way. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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