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Prestige dialects and General American | ||
Tags: Dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Jeito Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5817 days ago 55 posts - 63 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Mandarin, German, Italian, Portuguese | Message 17 of 36 08 March 2009 at 1:46am | IP Logged | ||
I think that is the Valley Girl, Surfer Dude influence that we talked about. It is much less noticeable in Northern California than the LA basin. Somebody else mentioned some native Californians have a country twang. It should be remembered that many people migrated to California in the 1930s during the Dust Bowl/Depression years from Oklahoma and other places. It's true they have left a linguistic marker on some native Californian speech, but not all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ninja Bunny Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5792 days ago 42 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Dutch, Danish, Mandarin, Afrikaans, Greek, Latin, Italian, Spanish, French | Message 18 of 36 08 March 2009 at 3:57am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the clarification. I think at least a little of the recent spread can be attributed to popular radio. Years ago most shows were local with a few that were nationally broadcast once per week (Casey Kasem, etc). Now many more are syndicated, particularly the weekday morning zoos out of LA, and I hear the Valley/Surfer influence quite a bit. Edited by Ninja Bunny on 08 March 2009 at 4:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cherepaha Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6589 days ago 126 posts - 175 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Spanish, Polish, Latin, French | Message 19 of 36 21 March 2009 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
Here are a few youtube examples: NY Accent 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apyL9wBWvIk NY Accent 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqeFVwgWUvA&feature=related NY Accent 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMhWEN7IG_U NY Accent 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuZ90_inNjo&feature=related Hope it helps. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5877 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 20 of 36 24 March 2009 at 5:31am | IP Logged | ||
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This girl is very good at accents. Of her 21 Enlgish accents you will hear 4 or 5 American ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UgpfSp2t6k&feature=related 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 21 of 36 24 March 2009 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | ||
I listened through that one and wrote down a transcript. Perhaps someone with a good ear for the New York accent could check through this and tell me how accurate it is? I have put (round brackets) around the spots I was unsure about, and where in the recording they occur for some of them. Especially the bit at 00:57 seconds into the recording I'd be interested to know if it's really "throw this guy outta this place" that he's saying there. I struggled with that one. This is my transcript: OK, so I'm gonna tell you about New York English. I have no idea what the value of this will be to anybody. Uh, maybe you're like an actor, and you wanna learn to get the New York accent down. Hope (it at least) will help a little bit. Uh, a lot of New York English is muddled and it's unclear, that's one of the key things about it, and a lot of these like Hollywood actors when they try to do a New York accent they end up butchering it. They do it a little bit too deliberately, and New York English is not deliberate, it's kind of muddled. I'll give you an example: With the T H noise, it's not quite a T H, it's not a T and it's not a D, like you hear some actors say "Dis" "Dat" "De oDer thing", I don't, I don't think it, it actually sounds like that, it's more like this: "DHat", "DHe ODHer thing", "DHis thing", "DHis thing's driving me crazy", like that, right. So the T H has gotta be kind of muddled. You also hear some guys say like "Tree", instead of the number three. I actually grew up speaking like that. You don't hear it as much anymore, but uh. You will hear the T H in some neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Staten Island, people will say like uh, you know: (00:57 "Dhrow DHis guy outta this place") or uh, you know "I DHrew this thing away" or uh "one two Tree". But uh, but I kinda say it now more like "three". "DHis, DHat, DHe oDHer thing". Uh, another thing you'll notice about my English, actually maybe you won't notice: My accent is actually a strange hybrid and once or twice native New Yorkers have picked it out, it's like half Staten Island and half Westchester, so it's not quite a typical accent. Hey you know (01:22 now the more that) I think about it it's (really) more of a Tri-State area accent than a proper New York accent. All right, so another thing about uh New York English is that, that it's a very lazy mouth that produces the New York accent. It's not lazy in the same manner like a southern accent which (is) dragged out and longer. Everything is shorter and clipped, but the idea is that you move your mouth the minimum amount necessary to make the noise, so you end up dropping a lot of sounds. So we talked a little bit about T H and how you kind of muddle that, another key New York consonant is the R. We tend to drop the R. We don't drop it the way they do in the Boston accent, where they say things like "retAHded" or "I pAHked the cAH", but when you have the R at the end of a word, uh in New York English you tend to drop it like: "here" we'll say "heAH", "theAH wheAH everywheAH, DHis, DHat, DHe oDHer thing". You know, anybody calls you up and says uh: why don't we get some people together for dinner? You say (er?) You wanna do it over here you wanna do it over there? Uh, I don't know, where do you wanna do it? Well it doesn't matter to me, you know, you tell me. Uh, oh you tell me, that's another - at some point I'm gonna go into the phrases that you use in New York because it's not just the accent, it's also the types of phrases you use that will lend uh your New York accent some kind of uh, authenticity, although my friends have accused me of using expressions that are about twenty years out of date, 'cause a lot of the English I learned - I don't even know why I'm telling you this, like you guys actually care - most of the guys (2:35 in there were Jewish retiring) guys in their forties, fifties and sixties and I tend to pick up a lot of their phrases, so I hear these things come out of my mouth and (?) wh- where did that come from? but ... Sure, that's another one S U R E, sure uh, You wanna do this thing (here)? SuAH, why not? SuAH suAH suAH, let's do that, (all right), fine. Uh, water, that's another one you drop the R, and uh, I understand in other parts of the country they say WATER, but uh, we just say waDHeAH, Can I get a glass of waDHeAH please? You want some waDHeAH? I'm dying for some waDHeAH (?). Give me some waDHeAH. Some more examples of the R: so like your buddy says uh: Hey, pass me that stapler. WheAH? Right theAH. WheAH? I don't see it. It was right theAH a second ago. I don't see it anywheAH. It's gone. TheAH. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5877 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 22 of 36 25 March 2009 at 4:10am | IP Logged | ||
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Hencke, it must have taken you some time to transcribe that. You have it all almost perfect. He speaks quicky. Just so you are aware, native English speakers would not require a good ear to understand this guy ... although the accent is unique and subtle in being able to mimmick the accent correctly it would probably not be considered a difficult accent to understand. This may be because it is a common accent in films (especially for example, you will notice it in mafia films such as Goodfella's, etc., but even Buggs Bunny speaks with a New York accent) ... many actors and celebrities speak with New York accents.
Here are all the corrections. Everything else is perfect (although you have written Uh, instead of Um on some occasions ... these are not important). You can shadow from your transcript with the below corrections. Congratulations on spotting most of the subtlties since he is talking to an anglophone audience. (00:57 "Dhrow DHis guy outta this place") There are 2 sounds for the Th sound in English. The first is the voiceless θ sound of "Throw" or "caTHederal", "baTH". The second is the voiced ð sound of the th in "This, that, brother, they". He is actually emphasising how they used to say it with the emphasis on the θ sound of "Throw" or "caTHederal" rather than the other sound from THe, THis,(which he pronounces as a d in this section, but is unaware of the ambiguity since he is speaking to an Anglophone audience of actors, etc. ... what he means to say and emphaise is clear to us), so phonetically the section goes "Trow dis guy outta dis place", or uh, you know "I Trew dis Ting away" or uh "one two Tree" "(2:35 in there were Jewish retiring) guys" It says "Jewish and Italian guys" and (?) wh- where did that come from He actually says "Well, where did that come from?" wanna do this thing (here)? SuAH, why not "You wanna do this thing? Yeah, Sure! Why not" I'm dying for some waDHeAH (?) Give me some waDHeAH "I am dying for some water over here. Give me some water" Edited by SlickAs on 25 March 2009 at 1:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 36 25 March 2009 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you very much SlickAs.
I just got the impulse to transcribe it for some reason. I didn't check the time but I guess it took me something like an hour. Listening again I can hear the "over here" clearly now, towards the end, where you corrected me. And it seems I missed the "Italian guys" bit. That was the other spot where I was struggling. Yes, I know it's not a difficult accent as such, and I didn't find it difficult either, except for a few key points where I was a little unsure. As for accents I'm sticking to UK though, what's left of it after nearly twenty years out here in the boonies ;o). Edited by Hencke on 25 March 2009 at 7:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheMonster Newbie United States Joined 5728 days ago 20 posts - 20 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 24 of 36 28 March 2009 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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There are definitely noticeable accents throughout the U.S. To me a mid-westerner from Iowa, throughout the mid-west is the general "American" accent that is heard. The East coast, south, north and west all have their own noticeable accents, and I believe they can be broken down even further as to area in the west, south, etc...It would be easy for a foreigner to spot a southern accent and even a far norther accent. My girlfriend is from Germany, and she quickly caught my grandmother's Alabama accent and a teachers accent who lived near the border of Canada in Minnesota.
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