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Do you find russian words hard to stick ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4720 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 17 of 40 12 April 2014 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
Just one thing, it wasn't Benny who wrote it. It's just a guest post on his blog. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 40 12 April 2014 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Also, English is easy because people hear it all the time, even when they aren't interested in learning. If you've heard a word/form many times, it will sound normal/familiar even if it's irregular. TBH I think this might have made me biased with Finnish, as I knew many songs and random words before I started learning it. This was especially noticeable when I started Esperanto and didn't have the same advantage as people who speak some French or Spanish. I can see how Esperanto looks logical if you studied these at school and failed. So the problem isn't with how Russian is described, it's that the OP speaks some French and a lot of Russian and still hasn't noticed the fallacy behind "English is the hardest language in the world". And of course it's also related to a whole bunch of Germanic languages, whose speakers don't know how difficult it can be for "outsiders", including Russians. Edited by Serpent on 12 April 2014 at 9:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4037 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 19 of 40 13 April 2014 at 2:33am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ah Russian, to think that Proto IE descendants developed from a quirky but reasonably balanced language into
vomit inducing nightmares of morphology like Ancient Greek, Icelandic, Slavic ones like Russian, and Lithuanian! It's strange that an already irregular system of derivational based stems, NOT conjugational, from Proto Balto Slavic devised aspect pairs as a method for the tense systems of descendants instead of auxiliaries when irregularity was barely under a manageable level, and boom, the regular classes of pitch accent left but instead of fixing the stress, it just jumped all over. And cases in all IE languages that have them just exist to complicate prepositions and verb agreement, the word governs the case, the locative or instrumental are just extra places to store more memorization in the syntax. Lithuanian, Russian, Ancient Greek, and Icelandic have no comfortable feel in them, it almost seems deliberate in how overly irregular they are. Why are suffixes dropped from the infinitive? Why are there multiple forms for one case that must be memorized? Why is one past stem palatized and infixed but the same infinitive ending doesn't for another? Why is the instrumental dual -a,-e, or -o for declension 28 completely random? Why does the stress change on 2 conjugations but not on the 3rd while the 4th drops a suffix and adds 2 more? etc. Having difficulty in EVERY area of a language is absolutely foreign to the rest of the world. Know that the Benny blog is optimistic to a degree, but also know that most languages in the world are actually not as complex as Russian. It is hard to admit that it and some close relatives are unusually full of detail. A person who learns many languages from many other families will try to rationalize that things balance out but truth is that most in the world don't have the mind tearing difficulty of these kinds in IE, they are LESS complicated, thats the truth and many of your expectations such as irregularity and extreme redundancy and gigantic amount of techniques from learning them don't exist that much elsewhere. It is not racist nor am I belittling them, and I am not sarcastic! Your languages are more complex and far far far more difficult than billions in the rest in the world. Edited by Stolan on 13 April 2014 at 4:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 20 of 40 13 April 2014 at 5:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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What a bizarre post.
4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5061 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 21 of 40 13 April 2014 at 9:44am | IP Logged | |||||
I didn't understand. What's the connection between your post and mine. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 22 of 40 13 April 2014 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The guest blogger on Benny's site thinks English is more of a mess than it is, because he's never had to learn the rules. He probably gets many questions from fellow language learners that he can't answer.
On the other hand, learners perceive it as easy/logical because it's all around, and in many cases because they spend many years getting used to the language. I believe it's similar to how I consider Finnish more logical than Esperanto, because I lack(ed) the default experience of learning some French or Spanish. Well, Finnish is more logical than Russian, but English is less logical than Esperanto. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4037 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 23 of 40 13 April 2014 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you, since you didn't say "I disagree" deep down you must be considering there is a bit of truth to what I say. Aspect pairs making every verb irregular are sort of saying "screw you" when the language already is complicated enough that without the cases and stress, it would still be more difficult than anything in all of East Asia or Africa. To use a verb in Russian, you need to know 3 stems, the stress pattern changes on the three, what case the verb governs or what preposition and then what case, and the aspect pair and the exact same info on the other verb. Lithuanian only requires 3 stems for its verbs and the case governed, the nominals require knowing the accent pattern and if it is the third, what is the original accent etc. about 8 different patterns with no predictability. etc. Meanwhile folks in Vietnam don't need that with theirs. They are content with grammar as a means to convey. Edited by Stolan on 13 April 2014 at 5:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 24 of 40 13 April 2014 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Any language can be described in a way that makes it sound impossible to learn. Some time ago someone set out to do that with Norwegian here. It's probably indeed hard to get the tones 100% right. In Vietnamese too btw. It's also hard to reach 100% grammatical accuracy in Russian. How many learners really need to get the language 100% right though? How many get close enough that it matters and how many speak even Romance languages with 100% accuracy??
And there aren't "billions" of languages in the world. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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