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Questions about a Greek text - grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| MNL Tetraglot Newbie Norway Joined 6001 days ago 39 posts - 39 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French, German Studies: Italian, Mandarin | Message 1 of 3 17 May 2014 at 9:24pm | IP Logged |
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Hey!
I'm using Circle of Life, from The Lion King, in Greek, to learn and decipher some aspects of Greek grammar, and I have a few questions that I have not been able to resolve through my own efforts or through googling, using Wiktionary or Wordreference. I'll include the whole text. I've translated it as best I could, so I would like some feedback on whether I have got the meaning of the text down or not, and I am also looking for some clarifications on the parts I have set in bold typeface. I've put the questions at the end of the post, next to the phrases that I don't quite get (in bold). Please correct any misunderstandings or mistakes in my translations :) Απ' την πτρώτη στιγμή στον πλανήτη, στου ήλιου την πρώτη ματιά. Στο φως της ζωής, έχεις τόσα να δεις, και θα πεις, πως δεν είναι αρκετά. Θα ακούσεις πολλά και θα μάθεις για μεγάλα μα και για μικρά. Σαν ο ήλιος ψηλά με στολίδια χρυσά, ξεκίνα δίχως τέλος και αρχή. Έναν κύκλο ζωής, και τρυγίρω εμείς, με χαρές και λύπες, και μια ελπίδα. Ώσπου να σε βρούμε, ήσυχο λιμάνι, Ένας κύκλος, ο κύκλος ζωής. From the first moment on the planet To/towards the sun the first look (is directed) To/towards the light of life, you have so much to see And to say, that it is not enough You are going to hear much, and learn About big/great (things) but also about small (things) Like the high sun, as a golden ornament(?) Moves on without end or beginning A circle of life And look around us With joy and sadness And a hope Until one can find (One's) quiet port/harbour A circle, a circle of life την - I've read that the "ν" is only included if the word is followed by certain consonants, like "π" in πτρώτη here, but it is not pronounced in the song. Is it merely an orthographic rule and not a phonological one? στου ήλιου - I searched a lot, but could not find a good explanation of "στου". It seems to me that it is a combination of σε+του, but I find it strange that the sentence would be in the genitive case, as σε seems to demand the accusative case. Can someone elaborate on this phrase? Which case it, and what does it mean specifically? πως δεν είναι αρκετά. - To me it seems to me that it means, "that it is not enough", which seems strange, as the original text has the meaning that there is so much in the world that you cannot tell everything about it. Could you explain this phrase to me and what it means? με στολίδια χρυσά - Stumped on this one, and I couldn't figure out the meaning. A correct translation would be appreciated :) και τρυγίρω εμείς - Does this mean "and look around us", or does it mean something else? & nbsp; Edited by MNL on 17 May 2014 at 9:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zografialep Hexaglot Groupie GreeceRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4140 days ago 41 posts - 71 votes  Speaks: Ancient Greek, Greek*, EnglishC2, GermanB2, Spanish, Latin Studies: Russian | Message 2 of 3 18 May 2014 at 1:12pm | IP Logged |
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Hello! you write ''πτρώτη'' (= first) but the correct one is ''πρώτη'', without τ. στου ήλιου την πρώτη ματιά- it is like ''η πρώτη ματιά του ήλιου'', in which you use genitive case. Generally yes, σε+ του= στου. This is used to show direction- for instance, instead of saying ''Πάω στην Μαρία''(=I'm going to Maria), you say ''Πάω στης Μαρίας'' (Ι'm going to Maria's). Usually the word ''house'' is implied there, or the word ''place'' (I'm going to Maria's house- Πάω στης Μαρίας το σπίτι.) The song probably means ''from the first time we appear to the sun's first glance''- '' από την πρώτη στιγμή που εμφανιζομαστε στου ήλιου την πρωτη ματια''- hence the genitive. Ιt is cut so that the song will sound better and rythm. It is also common to cut phrases in greek, especially in unofficial texts and oral speech. την- that can be a tricky one. Yes, the ν goes before the consonants that you know- however in oral speech it can vary. This is an unofficial rule--> We put ν before π, however when they are said one after another the make a μπ(b) sound most of the time. For instance, every time I say ''την πρωτη'', I say something that sounds faintly like τη broti (τη μπρωτη). In greek, v+π = μπ in oral, sometimes in written speech as well, in words that are connected to form others (e.g. συν ( proverb which means plus- +) + παίχτης( which means player) = συμπαίχτης =co-player) In oral speech, the ν can either be pronounced normally, like you know it, or it can change(the second is more often in casual speech, however you hear both in most cases)- for instance,also with κ as well. You say and write ''τον κρητικό'' (κρητικός= Cretan, man from Crete) however when you say it, it sounds more like το γκρητικό, because v+k= γκ (like ''g'' in game) in most cases... πως δεν είναι αρκετά--> that phrase doesn't make sense to me either in temrs of meaning. They probably put it to make the song nice. με στολίδια χρυσά--> it means ''with golden ornaments''. It is used to describe the sun, probably describing the rays. και τρυγίρω εμείς--> you wrote τριγυρω wrong, the ι are upside down :) it doesn't mean ''and look around us'', but ''we are around (it?)'' . Literal translation is: and around we. Τριγύρω means around, but it can be used as a ''nearby'' as well. e.g. Ειναι εδώ τριγύρω.= He is somewhere there, nearby. I hope I helped. I consider the greek accent and pronounciation one of the most difficult things to achieve, nt because it is hard, but because there are very few books- methods descibing how do it- if there are any at all. That is also the reason why the greeks can instantly tell who is not a greek, even if that person has lived 30 years in their country- I've seen many cases. Unless they grow up in a greek enviroment, even if they speak greek, they have an accent, or don't say things right-like this ν. This matter has been troubling me in the past, even since I made a conversation with a friend from Turkey. He started making fun of the greek accent, because (as he says)in Turkey they say that greeks speak with thh(θ) for s (what he meant, though he exagerated, is that we say Sh(like in the word ''show'', while the Turks say s like in the word ''city''). Then I started saying greek phrases to prove him wrong, but noticed that in some cases, he is actually not incorrect. We say '' σπίτι'' with a s said like the Turks(sound made from nearly close teeth, like a snake), however we also say ''σου έδωσα''(=I gave you) like a sh, shu eedosha! So, we actually use both s! And we don't even notice it- if that friend hadn't pointed out our ''funny'' way of speaking, I would have never known. I also talked to some greeks about the matter, and while at first the were like ''no, why do you say that?'' in the end they realized it themselves too. However, for us it's not a problem, since it is our mother-tongue, but how can someone that is learning the language as an adult achieve to say the correct s, especially since we have one s(σ) for everything? I think there is room for progress in this area by greek scholars- or foreign learners. However, until then, if you need any help tell me any question you might have. I'd be glad to help! ps: sorry for the long post :) Edited by zografialep on 18 May 2014 at 2:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Penelope Diglot Senior Member Greece Joined 3870 days ago 110 posts - 155 votes Speaks: English, French Studies: Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 3 of 3 18 May 2014 at 1:59pm | IP Logged |
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πως δεν είναι αρκετά here means that you'll see many things in life but still they will not be enough, I think :) You'll want to see and learn more!
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