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The Pleasure Hypothesis | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 1 of 25 14 January 2015 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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Stephen Krashen has put up a new paper on
The Pleasure Hypothesis. It suggests we should focus on things we find pleasant in language learning. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4668 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 2 of 25 15 January 2015 at 12:28am | IP Logged | ||
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In one of life's weird coincidences I happened to look at Krashen's website and read that same paper only a couple hours ago. There must be Krashen in the air or something.
I don't know what the consensus is about it as a scientific hypothesis, but I certainly conduct my language learning on similar principles. If something bores me I quickly drop it even if it is supposed to be "good for me." 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5963 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 3 of 25 15 January 2015 at 6:43am | IP Logged | ||
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I think this hypothesis can be extended to the learning of anything.
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| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5062 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 4 of 25 15 January 2015 at 8:05am | IP Logged | ||
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Note the distinction between two types of Pleasure Hypothesis:
1. The Trivial Pleasure Hypothesis: All else being equal, when learning something, pleasurable learning activities promote success more than non-pleasurable activities. Obviously this is true because pleasure increases the motivation to keep learning. 2. Krashen's Pleasure Hypothesis: In second language acquisition, pleasure while learning is a reliable indicator of the effectiveness of an activity. This one's not true for everything; there are certainly some skills where there are unpleasant activities that are essential for improvement. As for Krashen's hypothesis, it seems to me that it's true that a) comprehensible input is effective and b) comprehensible input is pleasurable, but I doubt it goes any deeper than that. If you constructed other language learning activities or games that were pleasurable, I doubt there'd be good reason to suppose they would also be effective. Edited by robarb on 15 January 2015 at 8:05am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6585 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 5 of 25 15 January 2015 at 10:07am | IP Logged | ||
Does it? It seems to me it suggests that reading is pleasant. It also suggests that reading is effective. But it doesn't say, as far as I see, that pleasant things are effective, or more effective than unpleasant things. For example, at the end, Krashen indicates that some people find grammar study pleasant, but he doesn't say that for these students, it is effective. EDIT: What intrigues me about it, however, is the section that suggests that corrections don't help and only serve to limit flow and diminish confidence. If this is true, we should presumably stop telling our iTalki teachers and native-speaker friends to correct us when we make mistakes. Edited by Ari on 15 January 2015 at 11:36am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4668 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 25 15 January 2015 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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In fact I chat periodically on Verbling with a fervent devotee of Krashen and the pleasure hypothesis, a guy from Spain who teaches Spanish and English. Whenever someone brings up language learning methods, which happens about as often as you might imagine on a site devoted to practicing speaking skills, he expounds on the virtues of i+1 input learning, passive language acquisition, free reading, and so on. He also gets really irate when people correct him in any of his languages, saying that it is useless for learning and breaks up the flow of the conversation. Sometimes he will even storm out of the chat group when this happens.
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| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6585 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 7 of 25 15 January 2015 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Then again, the i+1 hypothesis seems to have some limits, I think. I'm thinking of Sakib, an old coworker of mine who moved to Sweden around the breakup of Yugoslavia. Having been living in Sweden for decades, using Swedish every day, professionally as an engineer, he still made grammatical mistakes (especially failing to invert word order in subordinate clauses). And such cases are not uncommon. So there are some errors that can fossilize and not change no matter what the amount of input. I suspect that learning the correct rule and working on consciously implementing it in speech until it becomes natural is a way to fix this. Does anyone know if Krashen has mentioned anything on this subject?
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| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6154 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 8 of 25 15 January 2015 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Fascinating read. Krashen seems quite dogmatic on his Input Hypothesis, excluding the importance of corrective feedback, grammar study and traditional learning. He mentions the Output Hypothesis by Swain which I’d never read about before. It sounds like the debates happening in SLA, mirror the very discussions we have on this forum. E.g. Input vs. Output. The Pleasure Hypothesis paper hints at the direction that SLA started to move, from initially linguistics to more recently motivation psychology. Some SLA researchers are talking about a paradigm shift in the discipline.
International Conference on Motivational Dynamics and Second Language Acquisition – Nottingham August 2014 Reflection Edited by DaraghM on 15 January 2015 at 1:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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