Guinnes record for polyglottery? (Polyglots) Language Learning Forum

Guinnes record for polyglottery?
Tags: Guiness Book of Records \| Polyglottery \| Polyglot
Share with: Delicious Digg reddit Facebook StumbleUpon
Language Learning Forum : Polyglots

32 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Jar-ptitsa
Triglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 5711 days ago
980 posts - 1006 votes

Speaks: French*, Dutch, German

Message 25 of 32

27 December 2008 at 7:37pm | IP Logged

gklilx wrote:

One's language background has nothing to do with one's ability to learn a foreign language"

I agree, when this is a *general concept* BUT the language background's very relevant when you see a particluar native language and learn one, for example for a French it's easy to learn Italian but it's veyr difficult learn Korean because of all the million of similarities between French and Italian but not between Korean. therefore the language backgroudn is very important because the languages similar with your own language are easier. this is for the grammar, vocabulary and culture for example politeness, directness etc..
1 person has voted this message useful

Jar-ptitsa
Triglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 5711 days ago
980 posts - 1006 votes

Speaks: French*, Dutch, German

Message 26 of 32

27 December 2008 at 7:44pm | IP Logged

and, Vai referred the simple / progressive (that one's native language isn't relevant in this case) but it's *extremely relevant* because if your language has this distinction you have not to learn it in the new language, but you know it and can automatically use it. But, if your own language hasn't this disticntion then you have to learn it and remember you when to use it.

Also, vocabulary is much easier when your own language is in the same group or related one.

For example, for an American anglophone, who didn't hear other language , which would be the easier to leanr? The sentences are exact a translation.

1. Dutch (very close to English):

Ik zit in mijn huis en ik drink een kop thee en eet brood met ham

2. Spanish (close to English but in other language group):

Estoy sentada en mi casa y bebo una taza de té y como pan con jamón
1 person has voted this message useful

Jar-ptitsa
Triglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 5711 days ago
980 posts - 1006 votes

Speaks: French*, Dutch, German

Message 27 of 32

27 December 2008 at 7:48pm | IP Logged

Unfortunatly, I can't give you this sentence in Korean or Polish or etc.. for demonstrate very good that one's native language is *extremely* relevant.

For example, for a POlish, Czech will be easy but for an Italian it wouldn't, but Spanish would be easy.
1 person has voted this message useful

qklilx
Moderator
United States
Joined 5999 days ago
459 posts - 477 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Korean
Personal Language Map

Message 29 of 32

28 December 2008 at 4:49am | IP Logged

I wen move to Korea fo one year fo learn Korean but I go back Makiki in June. (This is really making me want to learn to actually use Pidgin rather than know it passively. lol)

Jar-ptitsa wrote:

You just repeated what I said.
1 person has voted this message useful

Jar-ptitsa
Triglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 5711 days ago
980 posts - 1006 votes

Speaks: French*, Dutch, German

Message 30 of 32

28 December 2008 at 7:34am | IP Logged

Vai wrote:

Jar-ptitsa wrote:

You described the Spanish hypothetical conditional. The English one is differnt: “if” followed by the past perfect and “would”

There is only one construction in Spanish for this and it directly mirrors English:

Si yo fuera tu, no lo haria.

If I were you, I wouldn't do it.

Adding the perfect tenses doesn't change a thing -- the auxiliary haber is still conjugated in the past subjunctive. But we are getting off the topic so I digress.

No, we are not getting off the topic: it was your first post on this thread: Your example above is the 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the English language where the subjunctive is used. It is *not* an example of the 3rd conditional like the one you put in your first post:

vai's post wrote:

You can't speak a language unless you can scold someone for running a red light (thus using imperatives and an example of non-textbook expressions) as well as "if you had told me, I wouldn't have done it" (thus showing control of more complex ideas). Knot cut!

In your first post your gave an example of the 3rd (hypothetical) conditional, which is constructed IF + past perfect + would. In English and Dutch this is the same, and in Dutch the construction of the past perfect is identical: had said (English) = had gezegd (Dutch) but in Spanish it's the subjunctive therefore different. The forming of the Spanish tenses is different, btu the aspects and tenses are more parallel with English as the Dutch ones for example Spanish and English have the future aspects and the progressives/simples as well but Ducth and German haven't. But, Dutch and German are *much* more similar with English and this is evident in the grammar and vocabulary as well as the pronunciation and therefore English is easier for Dutch and German-speakers.

vai wrote:

JarPtitsa wrote:

No, it’s not all grammar and the knowledge of those certain structures at all. For accuracy you have to know the grammar, but for communicate you have to know the vocabulary. If you don’t know sufficient vocabulary you can’t know the language (understand or use it).

Vocabulary building is a lifelong process. It serves no purpose to assign an arbitrary number as an 'adequate vocabulary'.

Yes it's a lifelong prcoss but before you have sufficient vocabulry you can't understand or use a language thefroe certainly you don't know it. Your (vai's) method of to define "know a language" is too much one-sided for the grammar: you have to include the vocabulry (my opinion). It serves no purpose to assign an arbitrary number as an adequate vocabulry is completely true I think also, because it gives no indication which ones and anyway how can you count the words? It's impossible BUT it means not that the vocabulary isn't important only because you can't count it (except when you begin a new language, when your vocabulary is very limited for example 100 words). For me, adequate vocabulary is when you can understand the things and you can reply in the situations which occur.

vai wrote:

Jar Ptitsa wrote:

You’re absolutely wrong. Language background is extremely important.

I didn't say otherwise, just that it isn't as important as dedication.

Yes you did said otherwise:

vai wrote:

Language background is not the most important factor to second language acquisition. I don't care what your native language is or whether it distinguishes between progressive and habitual present tenses, individual ability determines your ability to learn and use it.

Gklilx:

I didn't repeated it: you wrote that you agree with vai. Vai had wrote that he don't care what your native language is or whether etc... (see above in the quote)...

It's two separated issues: first, the ability to learn a foreign language (concept), second how easy or difficult is a particluar languaeg for the speakers of a particular other one. We all agree about the first, but vai disagree about the second and he's wrong. Anyway, I get bit tired of this discussion now. it's better and more interesting if we look at Hawaiin pidgin. Makiki = Hawaii?

1 person has voted this message useful

qklilx
Moderator
United States
Joined 5999 days ago
459 posts - 477 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Korean
Personal Language Map

Message 32 of 32

28 December 2008 at 7:28pm | IP Logged

Jar-ptitsa wrote:

Gklilx:
Anyway, I get bit tired of this discussion now. it's better and more interesting if we look at Hawaiin pidgin. Makiki = Hawaii?

Make thread for it. and my name is spelled "qklilx," by the way.

1 person has voted this message useful

This discussion contains 32 messages over 4 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.2650 seconds.