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Expug’s All at On(c)e Log - TAC14 | ||
Tags: Papiamento | Estonian | Georgian | Native Materials | Norwegian | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Mandarin | Russian | German | French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5171 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 409 of 415 21 December 2014 at 8:43pm | IP Logged |
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I still think massive input alone won't lead me that far or will take me too long, and I
am doing non-transparent languages. You can compare my approach to tarvos' one, that involves practicing writing from earlier stages. He went to Russian basic fluency after one year; I've been working on Russian for 2 years now, not counting some previous dabbling, and I'm at a shaky A2. Almost 3 years of Georgian and a low B1; a solid B1 for Norwegian, perhaps, but not basic fluency yet after over 2 years, while tarvos reached basic fluency in Swedish in less than one year. So I think what I said earlier that you retain more easily when you practice, to which he also confirmed, seems to be true at least for me as well. It's easy to work on massive input with transparent languages: I did get good results with Papiamento. Edited by Expugnator on 21 December 2014 at 8:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 410 of 415 21 December 2014 at 8:56pm | IP Logged |
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Well I think it's a question of priorities. I see this as learning to understand and as a bonus having output too, while wasting far less time on boring beginner stuff. I understand that you view it differently.
Would you say the trip was important for making Papiamento more easy, btw? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5171 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 411 of 415 21 December 2014 at 9:34pm | IP Logged |
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I don't waste time on boring beginner stuff either, I start native materials rather quickly. I see output practice -
even if only translation exercises - as a way to allow your brain to acknowledge that sentence as a valid way for expressing your thoughts, and so it helps you memorize it faster than waiting till you see it 50 times in two years. I have been through textbooks and through native materials in a rather loose way in three years, that is why I am trying to reinvent myself as I see input-only reached its limitations even for semi-transparent languages such as German and Norwegian. As for the trip, it didn't have any impact and I was already at a passive B2 before that. My contact with the language was minimal - two conversations - and I brought a few novels so I could keep on studying. I could only benefit from continuous exposure later because I was already at that level where the gurus advise you to make use of massive input to boost your skills. But I only got there soon because the language in question was absolutely transparent apart from a few Dutch words. This is totally different from my other languages and for these I believe constant output practice would serve me better for retaining the main new words than reading extensively when I could only understand 25-40%. So we're actually comparing oranges and apples here. YnEoS is the other guy studying several opaque languages at once and he noticed the limitations of massive input and switched to SRS, which also involves some sort of mental output. I prefer writing practice even though i a, not self-disciplined enough to do it consistently. All in all, I think one skill currently retro feeds the others. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4259 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 412 of 415 21 December 2014 at 11:41pm | IP Logged |
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I don't know if I would say I was having problems with massive input in general. At various times I've felt the materials I was studying and the way I was studying them was inefficient for my particular level of comprehension, and I've varied up my routine accordingly, but I don't know that I've experimented enough to draw any wide conclusions about one particular mode of study versus another.
I've used output cards in SRS before, and have found them helpful, but at the moment all my decks are input only cards, and I'm primarily using SRS because it helps me manage my study time better, and because it can make learning through films, which may not have lots of dialog, more efficient. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5171 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 413 of 415 22 December 2014 at 1:59am | IP Logged |
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I see. I am not advising against massive input, only against it as the main method that takes up 90% of one's
time. I believe intensive reading brings up a lot of benefits that can't be neglected, for instance. Even when you do input cards, that's intensive not extensive reading somehow. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5171 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 414 of 415 24 December 2014 at 1:45pm | IP Logged |
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My whole routine is on hold, as it is holidays, I am on vacation and my apartment is full with my family. I do
have idle times when I can try reading, and I am planning on starting Italian during these two weeks. These are the final days of this log as I am going to start a new one for 2015, but I will do so on January 1st in order to start thing evenly. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5171 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 415 of 415 01 January 2015 at 11:04pm | IP Logged |
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2014 is over and I have a new log in 2015. Check out
What Expug is doing in 2015 ! I'm sure I'll have to get back to this log, if only for the lists of planned textbooks that I keep scattering throughout it. It was a nice year when I wrote a lot and I hope those who enjoyed sharing my experiences can follow me in my new log. Happy 2015 you all! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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