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Possesion in German with the dative. | ||
Tags: German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 17 of 25 15 March 2014 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I didn't say this construction does not belong in job interviews. I was trying to demonstrate, by exaggeration, how different domains of language work and that it does help to be aware of these domains, so that it becomes easier for us to use them in a manner that makes getting along with other people easier when things aren't as clear-cut as in my exaggerated example.
You may be aware that when you are a foreigner, you will often be expected to use standard grammar even by people who don't use standard grammar when talking to you. I did read the question, I did answer it (and I hope I made clear that the construction given on that site does not, to my knowledge, exist), and I think the thread moved on from that question to our perception of prescribed standard and common non-standard forms, and consequently the information foreigners need to understand how native speakers will react to these forms. I think we did a good demonstration of that. Some will accept it (as long as it's a form they are used to), some will let it slide (as long as they can understand what the speaker means), and others will try to correct the speaker (even if it's a commonly used form). =D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5130 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 18 of 25 15 March 2014 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | ||
Agree. We did a good demonstration of that :) I think we have reached common ground, and I hope the OP got at least some useful information out of it, if only how divisive this construction is. Edited by Bakunin on 15 March 2014 at 8:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4668 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 19 of 25 15 March 2014 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | ||
Important map:
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| Falkenstein Triglot Newbie Germany Joined 3923 days ago 20 posts - 38 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Modern Hebrew Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 20 of 25 15 March 2014 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | ||
I consider NOT dropping the article when referring to people as weird. Unless you plan to make it even worse... Das ist dem Frank seine Schuld... LOL!!! I don't really care about dem Baden-Württemberg seine dialects. There is a Standard German and in Standard German it's wrong and it makes me cringe every time I hear it. To me it sounds uneducated and I don't like it. I have even heard learners of German making fun of it before. Even they know it's ugly. I don't stop you from using it though. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 21 of 25 15 March 2014 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I was in Bayern, I was consistently referred to as "der Jorn" - and I am pretty
sure the people I spoke German to were very well-educated people. (Though they didn't use a garpe-genitiv construction for the possessive, and should I have tried to have used that on them they probably would have gone "hihihi he is being Dutch"). Note that I also avoid the "Frank zijn probleem" construction in written Dutch because it technically isn't good written Dutch, it belongs to spoken register only (I might use it in an informal email or something). I think dropping the article in front of a name is a regional variant that is acceptable in some areas but not done in others. I personally find that it sounds quaint when people speak German that way (althoguh in Dutch you can never do that with the article). Much like the pronunciation of "r" varies or of "-ig" (which in Bayern I always hear with a hard /g/, never with the ich-Laut). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 22 of 25 16 March 2014 at 12:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Falkenstein, you may have noticed that I tried to not let this discussion derail.
It is used, whether you like it or not, whether you make fun of people doing it or not. And your attitude serves well in preventing people from using language-based strategies to get close to you. If you want to do that, very well, do it. But don't expect others to do the same. By the way, telling other people that something they do is unaesthetic is a strategy to stop them from doing it. It's just not as direct as telling them to stop doing it, which on the one hand makes it less likely that they obey, but on the other hand makes it also less likely that they confront you because of it. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5130 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 23 of 25 16 March 2014 at 5:48am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for sharing your views. I think, we have different attitudes. I love languages. I enjoy variety and diversity in languages, and I'm also excited by language change. I love languages with all their complexities and dynamics, my own as well as those I study. I usually look at languages from the native speaker's point of view - bottom-up if you wish -, especially in languages I study myself, and I can talk endlessly about those small differences in language use which are often so important to people's identities. I have spent many happy hours exploring language variety with friends and strangers in German, English and Thai, and language variety is of course a huge topic in Swiss German and present in almost every single interaction. This love for languages, their complexity and fluidity has also brought me here to HTLAL where I find many like-minded souls. Edited by Bakunin on 16 March 2014 at 5:49am 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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