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Russian difficulty | ||
Tags: Difficulty | Russian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 33 of 40 10 April 2014 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree about the devoicing since it is governed by a certain set of rules (see here) On the surface, I agree that vowel reduction occurs in an easily specified environment (i.e. basically it occurs in the unstressed syllable(s)). What's left unsaid and the real problem when learning Russian is that there's no reliable way to know where the STRESSED syllable in an unfamiliar word given that stress placement is mobile. Once someone has memorized or internalized the position of that stressed syllable in the form of a word (usually via exposure - no real point in trying to formulate a set of rules) then indeed vowel reduction is easier to figure out (although the reduction isn't always to schwa as described here) e.g. правда "truth" - bisyllabic noun where stress is on the first syllable regardless of how you inflect it, окно "window" - bisyllabic noun where stress is on the final syllable for cases in singular, but on the first syllable for cases in plural It's true that I would be understood by a native speaker if I'd pronounce хорошо as something like /horosho/ rather than standard /xərɐˈʂo/, but if I don't bother to learn to pronounce in ways that native speakers are used to, I'd either be corrected constantly (somewhat like Марк's comments about non-native pronunciation) or even worse ignored because native speakers would lose patience with putting up with that much non-standard pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5228 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 34 of 40 10 April 2014 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I grant that, but then the real issue is the mobile stress, not the vowel reduction, and saying Russian vowel reduction is confusing is misleading.
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| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4032 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 35 of 40 10 April 2014 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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Why would natives be intolerant? Russian has been learned as a second language for a while.
Russian free stress is a dimension to its phonology that ought to be noted, I agree. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5228 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 36 of 40 10 April 2014 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | ||
Ah, I see your point. You're correct: I was only thinking of the direction of spelling --> pronunciation, but as you say, going from pronunciation to spelling is more difficult, for both of the reasons you listed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 37 of 40 10 April 2014 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Intolerant is probably too strong of a word (although I can't discount that some native speakers would think less of someone who speaks in a non-standard way or way that's noticeably "foreign" or "off" similar to how some native English speakers may poke fun at speakers of Indian English, Southeastern American English, Bostonian accents or Ebonics). I can pull up studies for English, but I suspect that this phenomenon isn't unheard of in Russian or any other language for that matter. - ATTITUDES TOWARDS ACCENTED SPEECH: A COMPARATIVE STUDY OF NATIVE AND NON-NATIVE SPEAKERS OF AMERICAN English - Why don't we believe non-native speakers? The influence of accent on credibility It's possible that there are similar studies on the internet using the key words реакция, русский, второй язык (reaction, Russian, second language) although I can't fudge my way to find them or get the gist of any relevant studies without knowing enough Russian. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6437 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 38 of 40 10 April 2014 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mods, please reboot this forum. Trying to make a new thread just posts it as a reply in the top thread.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 39 of 40 10 April 2014 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Since unstressed vowels are pronounced in a different way in Russia, it won't probably cause a negative reaction, the promlem with vowel reduction is that the learner must be prepared to it in order to understand native speakers. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 40 of 40 11 April 2014 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm sure there will be millions of people across the former Soviet states and nearby countries who don't speak
perfect russian, but native speakers just have to accept this because few other communication options are available. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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