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How We Learn | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4253 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 25 of 32 17 October 2014 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sentence comprehension cards can also help with consolidation. I've found that when a new word is the most difficult word in the sentence, no matter how many times I can encounter it many times and only be lightly familiar with it. But once I see the word in a sentence with another new word and I use the semi-familiar word to figure out the new word, the semi familiar word consolidated pretty quickly. It's not just recognizing the words, but then further using them as stepping stones to learn more words that makes them sink in. For production cards, I've found cloze deletion cards and Image -> L2 to be way more effective than L1->L2 cards. Edited by YnEoS on 18 October 2014 at 12:23am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lemberg1963 Bilingual Diglot Groupie United States zamishka.blogspot.coRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4238 days ago 41 posts - 82 votes Speaks: English*, Ukrainian* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Polish | Message 26 of 32 18 October 2014 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I should've been more specific. I've had similar findings to you, as a result my cards over time evolved to be Q:L1 short phrase with an image, A: L2 translation with audio. I didn't like cloze deletion because I found that my brain was learning the sentence more than the deleted cloze. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4307 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 27 of 32 18 October 2014 at 8:11am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Really, no offense intended, but this is a naive thing to say. A "science" proceeds differently depending on what's in question. The word as it's used (not in some self-conscious, Popper-like attempt to define it) only describes the most reliable and rationally formed information on a subject. If the most reliable and rationally formable information is statistical, then there it is. I suppose that we would agree that the nature of the sciences in humanistic domains is shallow, even in reasonably developed areas such as the cognitive sciences, when compared with the hard sciences. But it's not all-or-nothing. Any reliable information is better than none, even if it's only suggestive of what a human being should do. Memory science is a good example, though you dismiss it's fruits.
Again, you're overstating it, also valuing your own advice as "worthwhile," which is the job of others. Yes, you're true in so far as obsessive methodological pondering to the detriment of real study is counteractive (claro), but a little consideration of how you're doing things and why you're doing them has more than "zero" worth. For example, you say you eschew spaced repetition, but is this because you tried it and it was of zero worth? This would run against the experience of Ebbinghaus, fellow memory researchers a century hence, my own experience and the experience of legions of dedicated Anki fans. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 28 of 32 18 October 2014 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Exactly. To create worthy art, you can break the existing rules but you still need to know them. To learn languages, you don't have to follow the principles we discuss, but it should be an informed choice, otherwise you'll be as foolish as some "modern" and "innovative" artists, writers etc. In addition to knowing what you're doing, you should know what you're not doing.
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| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5261 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 29 of 32 19 October 2014 at 1:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
We all make mistakes in language-learning and we could all probably do with more efficiency. We all do this in our own unique way. The mistakes I make (and have made) help me to refine what I do. Whether or not my learning style is maximally efficient, is not as relevant to me as the results. In the past 24 hours, I have had conversations in three of my languages (not Ladino, though). I am reading, writing and listening in four languages. I know what I'm doing and what I'm not doing. Is language learning a science? Is it an art? Or, is it a combination of the two? I think it's most likely the latter, since language is the most human of human constructs, and human beings are hardly logical. Being illogical and hard to quantify is part of what makes us human in the first place. The conclusions of this book, and the course that Serpent completed, may have useful tips for all of us. Some of it may not be so useful for our purposes. As we say in English- "don't throw the baby out with the bath water".
Edited by iguanamon on 19 October 2014 at 1:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| showtime17 Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Slovakia gainweightjournal.co Joined 6083 days ago 154 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Russian, English*, Czech*, Slovak*, French, Spanish Studies: Ukrainian, Polish, Dutch | Message 30 of 32 29 October 2014 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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70% of the time testing yourself? What are the techniques used for testing yourself?
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| Icaria909 Senior Member United States Joined 5590 days ago 201 posts - 346 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 31 of 32 05 November 2014 at 3:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I can understand where some people are coming from when they question the utility of using
some of these methods. The problem with a lot of this kind of information is that it is geared towards people who are masters of their subject matter and trying to teach this information to others with little to no prior knowledge of the subject. Very few books deal with pedagogical practices from the perspective of autodidacts. That is not to say that one cannot use these practices/ideas, but one should be cautious about how to use them. For example, if I were teaching Spanish to someone else, I would create a series of tests designed to identify the areas where the student was comfortable and the areas where he/she lacks understanding. Perhaps he/she understands how to use haber in the active voice but he/she is confused as to how to sue it in the passive voice. After that, I could design lessons that specifically teach how to use haber with the passive voice. That is great if you are teaching in a traditional classroom, but hardly useful for someone trying learn Spanish on their own. How does one create these tests? Do I know enough about my target language to make use of this information? Hardly. Having said all that, it is clear that this is not the case with this book. This books seems to veer away from those problematic issues by focusing almost entirely on how people can teach themselves new skills. It is nice accomplishment and definitely appreciated. I look forward to reading the book. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7204 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 32 of 32 05 November 2014 at 4:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
FSI drills. Sentence dictation. E.G., listening to an Assimil lesson and writing out what you hear. Verifying it with the book. GLOSS. A workbook with that includes the answers. http://lang-8.com/ Edited by luke on 05 November 2014 at 4:08am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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