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Why Germanic languages are generally... | ||
Tags: Germanic Languages | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4252 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 25 of 29 17 November 2014 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
They can, this is not what the conversation was about. Besides this is entirely dependant on everyone's linguistical background, there is no universal value of difficulty for languages.
Yeah that would be simple if there was any way whatsoever to quantify predictability and calculating numbers of rules to master any grammar...
This is precisely why saying one language is harder than another is a complete fool's endeavor...
Wouldn't that be something, right?
You just described every natural language ever!
No such language can nor will ever exist. If such a language would exist that would wreck every single theory that exists about the cognitive aspects of language.
You mean "orthography" by "alphabet" and that isn't language; it's only a representation of language. What comes to pronunciation; the "somewhat relative difficulty" of pronunciation is possible to quantify using the simple method; take the phonemic inventory of the language and devise an algorithm to calculate the relative rarity of the sounds present in the language; for example Xhosa has click consonants which are very rare.
This is the definition of relativity.
Eh..?
Nope, as there is no way to quantify the complexity of grammar.
So your assertion is that difficulty is equivalent to the relative time it would take for someone to achieve a working knowledge in the language? Your views mirror greatly those that a speaker of Standard Average European would have, where wide morphology is seen as "complex" and rigid syntax as "not complex" only because the speakers are used to that. However I still get headaches from Swedish syntax and I consistently mess it up even though Swedish is considered to be an easy language. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 4046 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 26 of 29 17 November 2014 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'm having difficulties (not extreme) with Dutch because it's the most different language that I studied seriously.
French is fairly easy for me and Spanish a peace of cake. I read several native English speakers complaining about the Spanish grammar "so difficult". An indian guy told me that it was very easy for him to learn Dutch but that French is "too difficult". I never found English particularly easy, and the more I progress the more difficult seems to me. The Dutchmen in average struggle with French but are very good with English. Most of the perceived difficulty is tied with the previous knowledge of other languages. However I read somewhere that the Danish and Arabic children need more time of the others to learn an equivalent amount of words. Not sure it's true. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| DaisyMaisy Senior Member United States Joined 5379 days ago 115 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish Studies: Swedish, Finnish | Message 27 of 29 18 November 2014 at 12:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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In my experience, most native English speakers who find Spanish grammar "really difficult" are talking about the different verb endings. Since we don't have nearly so many of those in English, it tends to boggle the mind at first. However, they are fairly consistent and with study they can be learned.
What I find hardest about Spanish (so far) is when the word order goes opposite of how it would in English. Such as, "Me dan el libro". I hear "me" and my brain thinks it is the subject, not the object. I really have to think these type of constructions through and they don't come nearly as easily as learning the verb endings. Not to digress about my Spanish studies, but I wanted to agree that "complex", "simple", "difficult", "easy", etc. depend on so many factors that it's hard to make generalizations about easy or difficult languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4031 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 28 of 29 18 November 2014 at 1:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That's more to due with phonology, not grammar. Anyway, We are forgetting one other thing besides phonology and inflection for complexity, derivation. Forming a single latin quality adjective or noun diminutive is just as inconsistent and unpredictable as forming an Estonian genitive on top of actual noun irregularities. That isn't to say languages in the rest of the world don't have some unpredictable derivational categories but none in the sheer quantity found here. I could give comparisons. But I will settle with one: With Arabic the consonants K-T-B will take you a long way, Korean and Navajo will get you a diminutive with one or two suffixes, in Latin prepare to come across half a dozen potential random suffixes for forming a word with the same imparted meaning. Edited by Stolan on 18 November 2014 at 1:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4387 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 29 of 29 18 November 2014 at 10:06am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Are Germanic languages really that "unphonetic " ? German is really phonetic , Dutch should be similar . I
have dabbled a little bit in Swedish and it seemed to be phonetic as well , not as much as German , but still phonetic . Ok , English is the exeption . Dutch people are really good at English simply because they are exposed to it from a tender age . Under the same circumstances also Italians would be very good at it . Edited by albysky on 18 November 2014 at 10:12am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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