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Sicilian vs. Standard Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| FrancescoP Octoglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5950 days ago 169 posts - 258 votes  Speaks: Italian*, French, English, German, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Norwegian Studies: Georgian, Japanese, Croatian, Greek | Message 9 of 15 18 December 2008 at 6:06am | IP Logged |
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Trying to get by in a regional dialect in Italy is not something I'd recommend to a tourist. The first time it's sure to blow people away and gain you a ton of friends, but if you persist it will sound really weird. I mean, as a kind of joke it's perfectly ok, but anything more serious than that would be off in more than a way. The same would be true for an Italian from another region, so it's a general rule. Dialect is an insider's thing here, forcing your way into a linguistic sub-community would be like making impressions of somebody's mother on the town square. And Sicilian people are not known to like these things, right? Kidding apart, studying dialects is great for one's knowledge in many ways, but what would people say if I were traveling to Leeds and tried to communicate with people in the thickest Yorkshire accent I can put up? That wouldn't be expected of me, at best... Besides, Sicilian is really more a language than a dialect. People from Apulia can understand it because the dialects spoken in the southern part of that region (Lecce, Otranto, etc.) have many similiarities with Sicilian, but the rest of us is usually at a loss... That's one of the reasons why I don't like Camilleri's pidgin. Practice to understand, but don't try to book hotels or order meals in Sicilian.
Edited by FrancescoP on 18 December 2008 at 6:08am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 10 of 15 06 January 2009 at 3:20pm | IP Logged |
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It's a valiant effort you're making. Do you have some Sicilian ancestry? One of the hard things about dialects is that they have been in close contact with the standard for so long. Especially in Sicily, which has the earliest vernacular (non-Latin/vulgar-Latin) writing in Italy. In fact, in the time of Dante, Sicilian was the main language of poetic expression. Sicilian poets created the sonnet.
However, as you know, the modern language is based on Tuscan and is a synthesis of mainly Northern dialects with Central (and, increasingly, Northern) pronunciation. This Tuscan standard has been widespread in Italy since the Renaissance. What I'm saying is that, since Sicily was one of the Italian city-states with a high literacy rate, it is also one where the Italian/dialect diglossia has existed the longest. Because of this, there is a huge range of language that can be considered "dialect". There are most probably at least two words for many concepts and simple, every-day objects, one native dialectal (for example, borrowed from another language or descended from a different Latin root as the Italian), and one sicilianised standard word. At one extreme, it is possible to speak in a way that is gramatically, lexically, and syntactically little more than standard Italian with sicilian pronunciation. On the other end, a very deep knowledge of the dialect allows a speaker to use highly divergent gramatical forms and draw from an unrelated lexicon. The thing is that, learning the basics for a trip will only allow to speak a kind of mock-Sicilian or Siculised Italian. In that case, you are better off just sticking to the Italian you already know and improving it. This is why it may be a waste to learn Sicilian for your trip, although it is definitely worthwile for your personal knowledge or if you are willing to commit to learning it in depth. Trust me, as I am a native speaker of another Italian dialect and there are still words I have never heard before that spring up over the course of normal conversation. And I don't mean complicated words; last week I learned a new word for "potato". A month ago it was a new word for "apricot". Before that, "to dare". Ugh I can go on forever, it is so frustrating precisely because it seems there are at least two words for everything. Sincerely, though, if you are truly interested in learning Sicilian then I wish you the absolute best of luck. PM me if you want to talk more about dialects. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| peppelanguage Triglot Groupie ItalyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5864 days ago 90 posts - 94 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, English Studies: French, Swedish | Message 11 of 15 06 January 2009 at 8:21pm | IP Logged |
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http://scn.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A0ggina_principali
here you have the SICILIAN WIKIPEDIA....I wouldn't suggest you to learn it just for a trip...it would not be that useful...but if you like it and think you're going to learn it more deeply...then... there you have it...with the link to www.linguasiciliana.it posted at the start...you can reach a nice level in a year I think...if you get very down on it... Sicilian is quite far from Standard Italian...In the South...SOME people can understand SOMETHING said in Sicilian...but VERY VERY FEW can understand a whole phrase (above all at average sicilian speed)...anyway...if you're going to learn it...BEST OF LUCK ;) peppelanguage 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 12 of 15 08 February 2009 at 4:58am | IP Logged |
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Dialect often lacks a standard form, and some versions may be further removed from the standardised language than others. Also the standard language may influence the dialect a lot. My impression of Sicilian is that sometimes it is like Standard Italian with a Sicilian accent, sometimes very different.
Some foreigners in Italy have learned a dialect version of the language rather than the standard. Vladimir Peniakoff ran a British Army unit that operated in semi-guerrilla fashion in Italy during the war, working with Italian partisans. In his account after the war, he mentions his men learning Italian dialect of the region or regions where they worked. He doesn't mention them learning standard Italian. Edited by William Camden on 08 February 2009 at 5:03am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| billywer Newbie United States Joined 5755 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Studies: English*, Spanish, Greek | Message 13 of 15 23 February 2009 at 3:51am | IP Logged |
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Hi!There are books and cds for Sicilian at the "Arba Sicula" website.They are titled Sicilian grammer and Sounds of
Sicilian.They have sample tracks on the website to listen to.I would have to agree 100 percent that Sicilian is another language.Although very closely related to Italian.Like Norweigan to Swedish.Too bad there are not more learning materials available here in the states.Growing uo in the Bronx I heard Sicilian probably alot more than Italian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| billywer Newbie United States Joined 5755 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Studies: English*, Spanish, Greek | Message 14 of 15 09 April 2009 at 4:25am | IP Logged |
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I just purchased Sicilian grammar and Sounds of Sicilian.They are meant to be purchased and used together.Both
publications are better than I expected!!The compact disc is excellent!I do not plan on learning Sicilian though at the present time.I'am currenting studying Spanish.My second romance language will be Italian.Then I will study Sicilian.So it will be awhile before I study from these two books and compact disc.I plan on studying Italian at Parliamo Italiano in New york City.I believe Sicilian language classes will be available at Arba Sicula very soon.I feel somwhat blessed that living in New York City I can find native speakers of both languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6960 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 15 of 15 08 September 2009 at 5:41pm | IP Logged |
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Now the movie "Baaria" (Bagheria is a name of a little city) of Giuseppe Tornatore has 2 versions
A version in a sicilian that is understandable by almost all Italians and another version in broad "baarioto" that can be understood only by the people of Bagheria and surroundings.... My family is from Sicily, and my aunt Carmelina speaks almost only in dialect, she told me that there are different levels and sometimes she does'n't understand someone of other cities , so they start to speak "plain" sicilian Sicilian is an Italian dialect , and then Sicilian has palermitano, catanese, etc dialects 1 person has voted this message useful |
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