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Sounds you can’t produce? | ||
Tags: Phonetics | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6779 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 17 of 43 01 November 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Since Marc isn't a native English speaker, the flap in Matterhorn might not come naturally to him.
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| Qbe Tetraglot Senior Member United States joewright.org/var Joined 7146 days ago 289 posts - 335 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Japanese, German, Mandarin, Aramaic | Message 18 of 43 01 November 2006 at 7:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Practice makes perfect. Keep listening to those German sounds and trying to imitate them, and you'll eventually get them. It took me 2 years of college German to get the 'r' as in 'trinken', but I got it.
I found that dabbling in French all those years ago really helped with the Japanese nasal 'n', but I don't think I'll ever get the rolled 'r' in Spanish and other languages. Maybe that's one of the reasons I like Japanese so much: no rolled 'r'! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6676 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 19 of 43 01 November 2006 at 9:26am | IP Logged | ||
Is that the same sound as the in the middle of 'water' in American English? Yes, I can pronounce that, but I've never realized a connection between this sound and the rolled 'r'. I've always considered it as closer to 'd' than to 'r'... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6714 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 43 01 November 2006 at 10:34am | IP Logged | ||
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Germans like Marc also say 't' with a flap of the tongue against the alveolar ridge (or somewhere in that region). For Anglophones the 't' in "water" would be just as useful. I used the 't' in my explanation above, but the hard d-sound may be better. Maybe try the German word "Marder" with the frontal German version af r (not the uvular version).
It is quite interesting that people don't think of 't' when they struggle with the dental r's in a variety of languages, but non-aspirated 't' is really a fairly close cousin to the one-flapped 'r'. It is just a matter of adding a bit more pressure and moving the tongue a millimeter or so inwards, so that the air pressure can push it back where it came from. The difference between Spanish or Italian "mara(bú)" and German "Matter(horn)" is less than the written forms suggest. Edited by Iversen on 01 November 2006 at 11:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7329 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes 6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 21 of 43 01 November 2006 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Iversen, I'm a bit confused about the flap of the tongue you are referring to. "Water" is pronounced in so many different ways in English - I'm not quite sure which one you're talking about.
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| bohemianrsdy Bilingual Diglot Newbie United States Joined 7065 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin* Studies: Spanish | Message 22 of 43 02 November 2006 at 12:07am | IP Logged | ||
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This sounds kind of silly but I randomly, scattered throughout the day, practiced rolling my double r's (rr) perro, gorro, etc. in a span of a few months and I finally got it! I asked a friend who's a native Spanish speaker and he said that I sound pretty fluent.
From my experience, the 'r' is pronounced differently in almost every language as well as within the dialects of a certain language. The 'r' in "standard" (for lack of a better word) american english is totally different from the 'r's in Spanish. Not to mention it's different among many english dialects. Gotta love the r's.... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6714 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 43 02 November 2006 at 3:08am | IP Logged | ||
I cannot vouch for every variant of English, but the important thing is that the tongue is put briefly towards the ridge just above the teeth, and that the resultant sound isn't aspirated, which may make it sound almost like a hard d. Then the direction of the tongue plus the very brief contact will make the resulting sound resemble the one-flap r. Of course there are dialects that behave differently, - pure cockney springs to my mind. Here the t is allegedly pronounced as a glottal stop (wa'er), though I have yet to meet anybody in person who speaks like that. Most varieties of English that I have heard have an r that is produced with the tongue somewhere in the middle of the mouth, sometimes even with a short glide backwards (nb: of course I haven't looked into people's mouth to check this, - but if I had to make the same sound I would have to do the movement I just described). Edited by Iversen on 02 November 2006 at 4:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sapedro Triglot Senior Member Portugal descredito.blogspot. Joined 7129 days ago 216 posts - 219 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Greek | Message 24 of 43 02 November 2006 at 3:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Want a difficult sound ? Try Portuguese ÃO :P
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