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"Educated" speech | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Maxwell Diglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6693 days ago 29 posts - 29 votes Speaks: French, English* | Message 1 of 10 13 November 2006 at 7:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello everyone,
I hope I explain myself correctly. I went to a state school growing up in London and I have often thought that my English vocab is sometimes "common" if I can say that. Obviously I can read educated texts and have intellectual conversations in English, it is my native tongue, but.... Now, when I speak German or French, I am told that I speak in a "very educated" way ie I use intellectual terms etc and was told that I sound like a professor when I speak - this leads me to believe that due to diligence and study I find it natural to use a "better" more varied vocab when speaking in my second and third languages however when I speak my native tongue I tend to stick to a pretty small vocab. Have any of you guys and gals noticed the same thing? I hope that makes sense, I have just got off of a long haul flight! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6779 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 2 of 10 13 November 2006 at 8:05am | IP Logged | ||
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I think I have the opposite problem. :)
Language registers — modes of speaking with distinct vocabulary and grammar — have to be learned. The registers you use in your native language reflect your upbringing and education, while those you use in German and French probably reflect mostly your learning materials and methods. You'd probably have more difficulty sounding like a street punk in German than you would in English. :) Edited by Captain Haddock on 13 November 2006 at 8:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| makaveli1989 Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6754 days ago 69 posts - 73 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 3 of 10 13 November 2006 at 10:16am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree Maxwell, I have grown up in East London and speak with a thick cockney accent and slang. It just sounds very wrong when I use "educated" speech.
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| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6901 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 4 of 10 13 November 2006 at 10:43am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm probably in the same boat as Captain Haddock. My range of vocabulary in my other languages just doesn't compare with my vocabulary base in English. Since my ultimate goal is not near-native fluency, I tend to focus my efforts on the more practical and interesting aspects of life which include food, health (you never know when you might fall ill) and, bizarrely, animals. If I were to take Dutch as an example, I can name a wide variety of food items and animals but struggle to find the words for 'legal system' and 'exhaust pipe'. Granted, the latter aren't necessarily 'academic' words but they are words that I would not need to use on a daily basis; therefore, I don't bother to learn them.
I would agree with Captain Haddock that the choice of learning materials can influence your vocabulary base and language register in the language you're learning. Anyone who uses self-study books exclusively may end up sounding quite 'bookish' and may not be able to readily understand informal language and slang (few courses seem to incorporate slang into their lessons). Those who learn a language through speaking with native speakers and immersion may have a better grasp on everyday language but may be hard pressed to write a letter in that language or, in some cases, be able to read the foreign script (I know of at least one person who can speak colloquial Mandarin but who can't actually read the Chinese script) With regards to English, I can wield 'educated' language when I need or want to (eg. writing essays or theses) but I certainly don't do so on a daily basis. I think using educated language too much will earn you a reputation as a pompous person, perhaps even a snob. This might be partly due to the fact that people, in general, don't like to feel that their own abilities don't match that of the person who is speaking, say, 'high English'. I personally admire anyone who uses an extensive vocabulary accurately and effectively. This obviously doesn't apply to the current generation of managerial staff who prefer to speak their own bizarre language and drop meaningless 'buzzwords' into their speech as if there was no tomorrow. :p It also depends on the situation. It's normal to use educated speech when discussing politics within a study group but that same language may seem a little out of place when discussing the same topic with workmates or friends. I think most people tend to use a far more colloquial language when talking with the average person as it somehow feels right and makes the speakers feel more at ease. Likewise, I'm pretty sure a good many of us switch to 'educated' language when we're attending job interviews or dealing with authorities. ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| justinwilliams Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6700 days ago 321 posts - 327 votes 3 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Italian | Message 5 of 10 13 November 2006 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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In my case, what happened is that I forgot to speak in an educated manner in French. I've been in an English immersion for 4 months so far and already it's pretty much gone. I do speak French with my girlfriend (not that I want to but she doesn't want me to get better in English it seems...) but I only use slang, and not only slang, shortcuts in words, words that invented, my sentences are never in the correct order, etc...so much that I think only her can understand me without effort. I had to translate some tourists at my restaurant in French. They thought I was good in French! Great!lol Sometimes I also use msn with some friends in Quebec so I obviously use a slangier (faster) version of French. I now correspond with a girl by email for language purposes and the first time I wrote in correct French it felt weird. I've always had a "saguenay" accent which is a region in Quebec where people speak in a let's say slangier and strongly accented way. But you can still speak in an educated way with this accent but anyways...I have this accent (even though I'm not from there) but I used to be able to use "high-words" but again it always felt weird coming out of my mouth because of this accent. So I guess the only occasion in which I sounded educated (poor me) was when I wrote essays and that kind of writing activities. So going back there for school I will probably get some linguistic surprises. I'm doomed to continue my life in English as I don't even think I'm better in French anymore. Sorry, I'm a bit off subject but take what has to be taken from this. Edited by justinwilliams on 13 November 2006 at 1:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6779 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 6 of 10 14 November 2006 at 2:36am | IP Logged | ||
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Lady Skywalker, can I ask why you always learn the names of animals first? Not that that's weird or anything; I always think the names of animals, trees, and other "category" words are so interesting in other languages, and so different.
There was nothing particularly high-class about my upbringing, but I've been an avid reader all my life and done a part-time writing gig for several years, so I can adapt my English to almost any social level. I think I could even manage to write like a Brit if I wanted to, having read hundreds of British mystery novels. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6901 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 7 of 10 14 November 2006 at 3:51am | IP Logged | ||
I think I tend to learn the names of animals, food and everyday objects first because I can associate a picture with the name. If I look at a picture of a lion, I can think "That's 'leeuw' in Dutch' or look at a car and think "'kuruma' in Japanese". I find the easiest words to learn and remember are those you can visualise easily. It gets a little trickier when you're trying to remember abstracts or words you can't readily associate with an image (I sometimes have to be very creative with these!). And I totally agree with you about 'category' words being interesting to look at. I've spent many hours looking through Wiktionary to see what certain words are in other languages. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6670 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 8 of 10 14 November 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged | ||
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It seems only natural for people to have "common" vocabularies in their native languages. Even if you work in a university, you are going to have plenty of "common" conversations in your native tongue.
Learning a language from self-study or an organized class usually leads to a fairly bookish or formal vocabulary. Slang changes rapidly and may be limited to smaller groups of people such as teenagers or people in a certain town or neighborhood. It's all too easy to use slang and sound like you're trying too hard or sound very dated. If you want to sound like a street punk in German, for example, you almost have to go where the native German street punks are. Sounding like a bad imitation of a German street punk could be a problem. I think most classes and self-study books aim for a middle-of-the-road approach. At first, your vocabulary will necessarily be limited, so you want to have words and phrases that you can use in the widest variety of situations possible. Most people who study a language won't find themselves in either the most formal and academic situations on one hand or the most gritty situations on the other. Lady Skywalker learns the names of animals. I tend to be the same way about color terms. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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