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Critical Period Hypothesis | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7216 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 33 of 60 18 October 2006 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I agree that Jerry's pronunciation is very good. I noted about 1 obvious non-native grammatical error each minute or so, which is not bad at all. This was actually comforting, because at first I was thinking he was basically a native doing a scam job.
Other things I noted in the video: 1) At one point he mentions studying English for 10-15 years, although his English still sucked. Then later, in 2000, something clicked and he got fluent in about 2 years. 2) He seems to be selling his method. That makes me wonder if there is some exageration, which is quite common in marketing. 3) He is a dynamic speaker, and I bet he has talent with the ladies. That makes me wonder if infomercials are good for learning enthusiastic enunciation, etc. 4) One of his points was to make your target language your first language. 5) His example on "how's the weather?" was pretty funny. Edited by luke on 18 October 2006 at 7:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| lengua Senior Member United States polyglottery.wordpre Joined 6695 days ago 549 posts - 595 votes Studies: French, Italian, Spanish, German | Message 34 of 60 19 October 2006 at 1:08am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I just finished watching it. As far as I can tell, he would more than qualify for advanced fluency based on his speaking if he were a member of this site. Yes, there are a few quirks, but there were none I consistently noticed. And his pronunciation is definitely native-level. I would be very interested in trying out a modification of his method - and I think I'm going to now, with Italian. Edited by lengua on 19 October 2006 at 1:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6905 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 60 19 October 2006 at 7:51am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
That situation will only show what you are able to distinguish off-hand, not what you might be able to learn with a bit of training. It also makes me wonder whether that TV programme concerned itself purely with this sort of off-hand ability, or whether their claims were actually based on subjects being utterly incapable of acquiring those skills even through prolonged properly conducted training.
I don't buy that theory since I have hard evidence to the contrary very close to home. In my own case I have learned, and I am continuously improving my abilities, to distinguish some of the sounds of Mandarin that I was unable to tell apart initially. Having said that, I am sure they are right that childhood exposure will make a big difference.
It all depends on how much exposure is required. It is a little hard to believe that one single instance of exposure would make any difference to what you can distinguish as an adult.
You can start learning to reproduce them by learning the correct position of the tongue and other speech organs and where the sound is supposed to come from. And the two go hand in hand: Learning to reproduce them helps in learning to hear the difference and vice versa. But it does take time and hard work.
Certainly. And just like you can train yourself to run faster you can train this ability too. And some will have natural talent and be fast learners, while some cases will be next to hopeless. I am getting there, though slowly, so I fancy myself somewhere in the middle myself ;o).
Actually, correct sounds is only one of the many components in sounding native. Intonation, stress and rhythm patterns (maybe even breathing patterns), and the transitions from one sound to another, how sounds affect each other in sequence, will be just as important, probably more so. In fact, considering that natives have their own quirks an mannerisms too, I believe it might be possible to get away with slight inaccuracies in the sounds and still sound native if stress, intonation and other patterns are right. If anyone doubts this, I'd suggest an experiment: Try holding a pencil between your teeth (across, like a dog would hold a bone) and record yourself speaking. You'll definitely sound "funny", and some sounds will be off, but I bet you agree with me that you'd still qualify as "native". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6905 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 36 of 60 19 October 2006 at 8:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
That may be better than many natives ... ;o). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6779 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 37 of 60 19 October 2006 at 9:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Natives make non-native grammatical errors? I think they normally make only the native kind. :)
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| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6905 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 60 19 October 2006 at 9:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Depends on how liberal you want to be with that "native/non-native" stamp :o). Of course any mistake by a native is a native mistake by definition, and non-native when a non-native makes it, even if it is the same one. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6868 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 39 of 60 19 October 2006 at 11:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I noticed all of this (as well as the other quirks mentioned). And talk about marketing, he talks as if twenty years old is old. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6629 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 40 of 60 19 October 2006 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Before the end of the "critical period" anyone can learn a language with a native accent. After the "critical period", the degree to which a language learner can acquire a native-like accent is a matter of individual aptitude.
Edited by Linguamor on 19 October 2006 at 2:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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