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Learning Vocab without Studying Vocab | ||
Tags: Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 41 of 67 19 July 2013 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don''t use Anki myself but I'm a great fan of paper flashcards and my home-made SRS system. It seems to me
that the much of the debate is about the ability to memorize and recall either spontaneously through extensive reading and exposure or with the help of a specific technique. Regardless of the approach adopted, what seems to be the key is repeated exposure to the target elements. I have my disagreements with much of the literature on the measurement of vocabulary size, but that is another debate. But what is relevant here, in my opinion, is the distinction between the ability to recognize i.e. to have seen it before and to surmise some "meaning" and the ability to use in an accurate and idiomatic manner. These are two very different skills. This distinction is particularly relevant when dealing with idioms where the actual meaning is not evident from the component words. For example, just the other day I saw for the first time in my life the expression "to get his clocked clean" in the sense of to be beaten up. The words themselves are quite common elements but the ultimate meaning was unknown to me. After looking it up in the dictionary I see now what it means but it is certainly not part of my active vocabulary. Edited by s_allard on 19 July 2013 at 12:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 42 of 67 19 July 2013 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | ||
I generally avoid sad/painful ones and choose those that at least bring the feeling of hope, or make me smile. Quotes also last longer because they don't rely on puns etc. Like Khatzumoto said, when a joke gets old, delete the card. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 43 of 67 20 July 2013 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||
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While I have a moment, I'd like briefly to revisit the question of the measurement of vocabulary size. This is nearly
always receptive vocabulary and not productive vocabulary. More importantly, if you look at the methodology, none of the tests actually count words. They all look at the words you know on a frequency scale. So, for example, if you know the word ranked 1000th, it is assumed that you know the 999 preceding words. It's a bit more sophisticated than that but that is how a test can use 140 questions to arrive at an estimate of the thousands of words you can recognize. That methodology is valid as long as one recognizes the limitations. It says nothing about the number of words you actually use. If you were to actually count the number of words you actually use in a time period, the figures would be totally different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4827 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 44 of 67 20 July 2013 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | ||
I seem to remember that our own Iversen reported once here that he'd analysed all English words he'd used on HTLAL over a long period, in order to estimate his vocabulary, and this would be active vocabulary. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit its limitations, but I'll bet that that's the most realistic test of active vocabulary we are likely to see in practice, in quite a long time. (It does not cover spoken vocabulary, of course). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| I'm With Stupid Senior Member Vietnam Joined 4172 days ago 165 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Vietnamese | Message 45 of 67 20 July 2013 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think most modern research would suggest that the key to memorizing vocab is doing something with it. For that reason, I don't think that flashcard-based memorisation is the most effective method (which isn't to say it doesn't work at all, and everyone's results may vary). Doing something might be as simple as writing a sentence with it (which in turn helps you memorize the sentence structure you put it with), or perhaps even a sentence describing it. I find that when I use mnemonics to remember a word, it isn't so much the image I come up with that helps me remember it, but the actual process of coming up with an idea. I find that once I've thought of an idea (usually a funny image), I can usually remember the word without really having to refer back to that idea again. I suspect that once you get to a higher level, you're more likely to be able to recall vocab purely from reading, but I think initially at least, using the language is the most effective method.
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| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 46 of 67 21 July 2013 at 12:09am | IP Logged | ||
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You need a research to know that? :-D
(a general "you" of course) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 47 of 67 21 July 2013 at 5:55am | IP Logged | ||
I totally agree except that I would phrase the idea differently. First of all, there is the fundamental distinction between receptive and productive vocabulary. Most of what is being discussed here is the former, i.e. the ability to recognize a lexical unit and perceive some kind of meaning, hopefully close to what was intended by the author or emitter of the lexical unit. The wording may sound vague or cryptic but this is to convey the idea that this passive knowledge is often quite vague and is rarely verifiable. At best we look up the lexical unit is a bilingual or monolingual dictionary and we assume we understand. This is expecially true if we don't formally study the vocabulary. We just look at it in context, maybe look it up in a dictionary, make a mental note and then move on, hoping to find it again and learn by osmosis. Learning to use a lexical unit accurately and appropriately is a completely different skill. This requires learning to use not learning to recognize. We have to master the elements of form, the surrounding linguistic context and meaning. Of course, there is also the pronunciation which can be challenging by itself. This is where I agree with the quote. To attain any serious level of proficicieny, you have to actually use the language, for memorization and for everything else. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4532 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 48 of 67 21 July 2013 at 9:09am | IP Logged | ||
Can you point to the research? My understanding of memory is that the act of recall is what actually strengthens the memory, which is why flash cards work. The limitation is that you tend to only learn what is on the cards. So for simple word lists you are basically just learning L1-L2 word pairings. So my reading of the research is that flash cards are great for learning vocabulary. I think the problem is that people sometimes fall into the trap that they think that language learning is only really about learning lots of vocabulary plus various explicit grammar rules. I agree entirely that to learn a language you need to actively engage with it by reading/listening/speaking, but it certainly helps that when you first pick up a book you have a lot of these L1-L2 pairings in your head, not for ever, but long enough that you slowly go to L2 only. Edited by patrickwilken on 21 July 2013 at 9:10am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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