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Reducing Self-Study Method Abandonment | ||
Tags: Burn-out | Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 113 of 139 02 September 2013 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I find that book-based courses have not changed that much. The basic chapter structure that everybody uses is
as follows: 1. A dialogue in a given context with some linguistic focus 2. Some explanation of vocabulary and grammar. 3. Exercises on the points of grammar or vocabulary. The classic exercise is the fill-in-the-blanks or cloze exercise. At the end of the book are a mini-dictionary, a pronunciation guide, maybe a glossary of grammar terms and conjugation tables. The most problematic area is the dialogue. This is where the choice of material is critical: one must not be too topical or the product will age very quickly. But one must not be too generic as to become irrelevant. This is why books made only 20 years ago seem so quaint. And if you have pictures or drawings, it's even worse. Things get stale very quickly. I remember the old Berlitz books where you had the inevitable railway station dialogue, the hotel dialogue, the restaurant dialogue, etc. Nowadays, there are so many things one may decide to incorporate: smartphones, the many types of computers, the Internet, geopolitics, environmental considerations, medical technology, etc. And there are issues of social register, gender, age, ethnic and religious diversity that one may want to acknowledge. I, of course, believe that the only solution in today's world is the online or downloadable solution. Transparent Language, that @iguanamon mentioned, is a an excellent example of this direction. But I don't want to get into a fight over online vs books. Back to the book. In my opinion, a great challenges in writing a book is getting the linguistics right. We may not be always aware of it here at HTLAL but the field of linguistics is constantly evolving and our understanding of the workings of language is constantly changing. Even grammar terminology is changing. In French for example, the Nouvelle Grammaire, which is no longer very new, has brought in not only a new terminology but also a new way of thinking about French grammar even though French grammar has not changed fundamentally in 100 years. Due to progress in areas like socio and psycholinguistics we have a much better understanding of how languages are used in the real world. What people say and what we think they say or what we think they should say are very different things. How do you incorporate this into a book? That's the challenge. Quite a separate issue, mind you, is selling such a book. The goal is to get as many people to buy the book as possible. This is more the realm of marketing rather than linguistics. Edit: I've forgotten to add that there would be CDs or mp3s with the book. Mea culpa. Edited by s_allard on 03 September 2013 at 1:57am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 114 of 139 03 September 2013 at 2:18am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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What are the limitations of the book-based course? The number one problem is rigidity. What you have in your
hand is what you get, like it or not. If there's anything you don't like, you're stuck. Some people love certain things; others don't. That's human nature. Maybe the explanations are not clear to you. Maybe you just don't like a specific topic. Or maybe the voices on the CDs get on your nerves. Even teachers don't like certain things. That's why we have so many different books. A related problem is the linearity. You are supposed to learn things in a certain order. The problem here is that native speakers do not speak in that order. Certain topics are so-called advanced because you will see them towards the end of the book. But you'll be hearing them right now. Of course, the really fundamental problem that I hardly mention is lack of feedback or interaction. Some people don't think it is necessary but many people like feedback because it is a means of engaging with the real language and also a means of knowing if you are on track. I'll leave it at that. All these considerations have led publishers to develop support websites for their publications. You use the book and the website. In my opinion, this is just an intermediary stage. The coming step is for the publisher to simply eliminate the book and tell everybody to buy the ebook version for a tablet. (It reminds me that our largest local French-language daily newspaper is planning on eliminating its printed version within a year or two at most). I was consulting an excellent website on a point of French grammar and came across this quotation from the home page: "This is a brand new website providing games and other interactive activities to support French learning using the So You Really want to Learn French books. Featuring detailed grammatical explanations with soundfiles plus hundreds of grammar and vocabulary games and other resources, the site is an invaluable tool for French learning both in and out of the classroom. Suitable for all French learners from beginners to scholarship level. * A wealth of grammar and vocabulary resources following the structure of the SYRWTL French books. * Vocabulary games covering all words featured in SYRWTL French books. * Thorough grammar explanations and interactive games ranging from beginners to scholarship level. * Interactive verb table section with soundfiles and examples of usage. * All resources whiteboard friendly, and site can be used in school or at home on any computer via the Internet." Real French Edited by s_allard on 03 September 2013 at 4:44am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 115 of 139 03 September 2013 at 2:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I think it's possible to accommodate the learner who wishes to skip ahead. Online courses often require that you go one step at a time and it's not always possible to skip ahead, so this problem is not the book's problem only.
How do online material avoid this problem? No matter what you learn, it will always be one step at a time.
True. Books can be engaging though. And not all online solutions provide feedback either. In most cases, "interaction" means clicking on something to get the answer. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 116 of 139 03 September 2013 at 5:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I think that all of @Arekkusu's objections are valid insofar as one compares the book to an online course that is a
mere transposition of the book online. In that sense there is not much difference between the book and the online course. Let's take the worst case scenario and put the book online as a pdf. There is no differnce between the book and the online experience other than the physical substrate. But let's use our imagination and think of the possibilities that often exist in some form today. Instead of a linear sequence of chapters, why not simply have a series of modules at a certain level? So, we could have 40 modules that cover all of B1. The modules contain videos, sound files, graphic stories, texts that have been pre-recorded, pop-up dictionaries, grammar explanations that are embedded in the text, etc. The modules can be read in any sequence. Choose a module according to the subject not the grammar sequence. Drill down for grammar explanations. I'm not saying that all this exists now in one single system. What I would say is that this is to some extent how many people here at HTLAL are learning their languages today. We all skip around online thhrough our favourite websites. We watch movies, tv programs including soap operas with subtitles, we listen to songs while reading the lyrics we found somewhere. We use Google Translate and various online reference materials. We consult various blogs. Etc, etc. I'm not saying that the book cannot be engaging or that it will disappear next year. I think that as a first step many language teaching books will migrate to the tablet platform. I think the @Arekkusu is only too aware of the advantages of publishing his guide to Québécois as an e-book. I won't repeat them here. Of course, one could have a printed version as well as an digital version. Then add a support website with all kinds of supplemental material. You could point to current songs with lyrics or even to webtv programs in Québécois with subtitles. The website could be free or maybe there would be a $3.00/month subscription fee. That could provide a nice income stream and cover the costs of updating the site. And the @Arekkusu could have online talks about subjects in the book. Or maybe a workshop on a specific topic for registered users who would pay $10 each for a 60 minute session. This could be a form of interactivity. It's not the same as one on one tutoring of course. But 15 people with the author for 60 to 90 minutes is not bad. And at $10 or $20 dollars a head, it could be nice money for Arekkusu. The possibilities are endless. Not right now of course but maybe in 2014 or 2015. Edited by s_allard on 03 September 2013 at 5:38am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 117 of 139 03 September 2013 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
That is very much true. Some products even try the free approach and return back to rigidity, often against 99% of the users' feedback. Memrise is a "good" example. They had a really good Beta where the functions and method were tested and where their users were giving them a lot of advice concerning what they want to see (and usually they agreed on the things) and what they would be more than willing to pay for, which was even more important at the given situation. A big point on the list were details of how to make Memrise even more flexible Instead, the Memrise team went crazy and turned the working and quite free and flexible tool into a shiny but very rigid one. Much more rigid than a paper wordlist, in my opinion. A paper wordlist doesn't force you to learn these four words with the one you want and until you get all five right, you aren't moving further. Paper wordlist doesn't tell you how many words to study at once. The thing is that rigidity is very profitable in some settings. Like "Of course you can buy level 24 but first, you have to buy and go through levels 1,4,16 and 22". This is where not only Memrise is headed.
The book allows you to skip to the last lesson with smaller or bigger trouble caused by the gaps you jumped over. The modern tools, including the best ones, often don't let you jump because there is usually nowhere to jump to. An example: subjonctif in French and Spanish. Something most paper textbooks introduce much later than you encounter it in reality. Fluenz doesn't introduce it at all. The new Living Language modern thing doesn't get close by far. Introducing things that look complicated just isn't comfortable for the tools wanting to look easier than the books.
There are various kinds of feedback dependant on the activity. Clicking on a button to see "correct" or "wrong" is no different than checking the key to exercises. And not more interactive Feedback to your speaking (or writing) is dependant on use of people and therefore the online tools are very reluctant to include it. And those who do (RS, Living Language) often limit it severely by allowing you only to strictly follow given patterns so that "tutors" (more like living machines there) would have as little work as possible and could be paid as little money as possible. If you want that much feedback, pay a real tutor, as many already do. Either in real life or over Skype. But I don't believe most online learning environments will ever do anything like this for you. Those who will will either cripple the ways you can use the person or make the price far too high. Instead of just paying the tutor, you will pay tutor+stupid artificial environment+marketing and salaries of many other people. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 118 of 139 03 September 2013 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Since I covered all of @Arekkusu's objections or remarks, I will not repeat myself.
But I want to look at the big picture. It seems to me that there are two schools of thought here. School A school holds that: 1. The book or the book-based course (wih audio of course) is an effective, proven and economical learning tool that can engage the learner. 2. Online systems do not have and will never have any advantages over a good book-based course. School B holds that: 1. Book-based instruction can be effective and economical but has certain inherent limitations. 2. The digital platform and online learning systems offer or have the potential to offer a richer learning experience than the book-based course. I fully recognize that these are simplifications and that the positions are more nuanced. As everybody knows, I am squarely in school B. I'm not against books. I simply say that in today's world the technology allows us to make language learning more exciting, easier, economical and above all more effective than ever before. How do you squeeze the audio and video ressources we all use and enjoy over the Internet into a book? We can exchange with people all over the world. There is a wealth of language exercises, resources and activities that we can partake of freely. I can read today's newspapers in my target language and have the contents translated instantly. And I can do this anywhere and at any time of the day. Is there anybody who is against this? Are there people who believe that a big heavy dictionary is better than the online tools we have today? Do people remember what independent language learning was like 25 years ago when all we had was a book and a bunch of cassettes? Some people are definitely against online learning but I'm totally convinced that all the publishing houses have seen the writing on the wall. Instead of saying "If you want that much feedback, pay a real tutor," they are saying "How can we use technology to leverage the presence of native resources to large audiences?" For me, it all boils down to a choice between looking backwards to the past - the book has been around for hundreds of years, why change it? - or looking forward to all what the technology has to offer. It's not a question of throwing the book out the window. It's more like how can we move it online and then evolve it into something more efficient. I certainly believe that there will be a market for artisanal niche products by independent authors working in their proverbial basement. But it is also clear in my mind where we are all heading, even if it is kicking and screaming. Edited by s_allard on 03 September 2013 at 5:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 119 of 139 03 September 2013 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Let's look at a concrete example of what I'm talking about. Not for tomorrow but for today. Suppose that
@Arekkusu decides to offer a set of flashcards to go with his Québécois language book. We all know and appreciate how useful flashcards are. @Arekkusu is faced with a choice. Does he go with actual cards in pretty boxes in time for the coming Christmas season? Or does he go with a smartphone app?. The advantages of the physical cards are well known. I actually prefer physical cards myelf. I can put a few in my pocket. Nothing to turn on. No batteries to recharge. And I can write on them. But when @Arekkusu's looks at the economics and logistics of publishing and distributing flashcards, there's a bit of a cold shower. What price would he have to charge to make any money? Now let's look at an electronic version. Yes there are development costs but think of the possibie enhancements: audio, an SRS and maybe images; the ability to do updates and correct mistakes immediately. An above all, easy distribution around the world. I'm not saying that digital is the only way to go. What I'm saying is the @Arekkusu has to think twice about the whole thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 120 of 139 03 September 2013 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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You are comparing 2 very different things here. Sure, printing a deck of flashcards would be expensive and developing an app instead would be cheaper than producing even a simply enhanced ebook, but the economics for a regular book are exactly the opposite...
1 person has voted this message useful |
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