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Reducing Self-Study Method Abandonment | ||
Tags: Burn-out | Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4912 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 129 of 139 05 September 2013 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
A language course based on things people are actually interested in is a good idea. Unfortunately, many of the things listed above are copyrighted items, and so the language publisher would have to pay a licensing fee. It would be great though. I would like a language course based around a film, TV series, existing BD or something of the like. It would probably have to be intermediate (or advanced beginner), and would use excerpts from the book/comic/film as the dialogues for the lessons. In the hidden mists of language learning legend, such a course does exist in Hindi. It is called "Three Hindi Film Dialogues", and contains the full dialogues of 3 films, along with notes, vocabulary, exercises, lessons, etc. Unfortunately, it has been out of print for a long time, and I have yet to see a hint of a scanned copy. If this were to be done today, you'd have to pay large fees to the movie owners, and so it just wouldn't be economically viable. The problem with a beginner's textbook based on something like sci-fi or BD is that it would not appeal very generally. But perhaps an industrious course writer would be able to create a beginner's course in 3 or 4 different versions. The versions would be nearly identical in "teaching content", but the dialogues, readings and vocabulary which would be geared towards a specialist interest. So the book could have a sports oriented version, a sci-fi version, a version with something females like (whatever that might be), etc. I would definitely consider buying something like that; I might even be tempted to buy a 2 or 3 versions and use them in parallel. In the case of parallel beginner's books, most of the vocabulary would still be the same across the versions simply because they would mostly use high-frequency vocabulary in all cases. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4892 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 130 of 139 05 September 2013 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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"Three Hindi Film Dialogues" is such a great idea - I would jump at such a textbook!
I think there would still need to be simplified dialogues in the beginning, but maybe not as much as we think ... Clyde Pharr's Homeric Greek is the classic in the field, and it starts with extracts from the Iliad on Chapter XIII. I'm not convinced that licensing fees are a real issue. A lot of material is in the public domain, and reading anthologies are common enough that those fees can't be much. Studios put out movie trailers for free, so a course could easily use them. A great course might only need to pay large fees for five or six 'big ticket' items. Assimil courses are already $100 US, and Pimsleur between $60 and $250 per level. I would think an excellent course could pay a lot of licensing fees and still cost less than either of these! The parallel text books is an interesting idea. It takes me a couple passes to internalize new grammar concepts (I'm on my fourth round with the French subjunctive). I could also see using two or three versions of a course in parallel. Edited by kanewai on 05 September 2013 at 11:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5433 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 131 of 139 05 September 2013 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As I survey all the great suggestions for books and courses, the more I think that the solution is ultimately online
because of the sheer diversity of the wish lists as expressed here. @Arekkusu must be holding his head and wondering what to do next for his book ideas. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 132 of 139 06 September 2013 at 2:56am | IP Logged | |||||
Better to have too many options than not enough! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5433 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 133 of 139 06 September 2013 at 6:44am | IP Logged | |||||
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What I find quite fascinating about the self-study language learning industry is the disconnect between the vast
number of resources, i.e. books, courses, websites, and the tangible results. Many people buy and use these products even though they may not finish them. But what are the end results? If I look at French, the language I'm most familiar with, I have the impression that the results are dismal. I believe that only a tiny fraction people can say that they achieved anything like a B2 just by studying on their own with the usual tools. I don't fault the products. The claims of results may be a bit dodgy but I don't think the products are that bad; it's just that the idea of learning a language by yourself is pert near an oxymoron. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5568 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 134 of 139 06 September 2013 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree with you, in fact I think I would be very pleased if I could reach B2 by a
language course alone (or even a book shelf full of them). I am more sceptical - perhaps A2/B1. Maybe one way to consider the problem is to work out what skills one cannot acquire by self teaching. Clearly, grammar can be acquired but the use of FSI style drills or a stack of Practice Makes Perfect exercise books. Likewise, reading can be acquired to a relatively high level (although, as a novice just finishing my first Michel Thomas course and following his suggestions to read interviews by purchasing a copy of Paris-Match showed, even gutter press material involves more words and idioms than most languages course even contemplate). It seems to me that one thing language courses lack is the training in the automaticity that speaking and listening in colloquial language requires - For example, being asked a question by a random stranger in a supermarket in L2 never quite follows the way a course teaches you to deal with it. Listening to lots of interviews (as was a fashion in 1970s BBC LP courses or, for example, in the Smart French or Fluent French Audio products) help in these areas but still a course can only take you so far. Maybe therefore a positive way forward is to identify what self teaching can and cannot do. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 135 of 139 06 September 2013 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It seems to me once you get to B1, you're pretty good to go. You can use extensive reading and listening to improve those skills significantly. If automaticity is still a problem, FSI drills can fill the gap. I know that's a course, but my point is that once you've got a solid foundation, it's time to branch out and start doing what you want to do with the language. If holes turn up, and they will, either do more extensive reading/listening, and if you're a talker, look for things to address your specific problems. These may or may not be courses. They may be more targeted, such as a grammar book in the target language. Something that will keep your interest. Edited by luke on 06 September 2013 at 10:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 136 of 139 09 September 2013 at 1:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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If I may, I'd like to turn the discussion into a slightly different direction and ask the following question:
What feature would you want to see publishers include in their self-teach language methods? If possible, let's leave aside features that require resources outside of the printed book. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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