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Reducing Self-Study Method Abandonment | ||
Tags: Burn-out | Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 65 of 139 29 August 2013 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As usual @iguanamon comes up with a thoughtful, articulate and useful contribution. I shall refrain from making any distasteful comparisons here.
I also read Farber's book and found it indeed very inspiring. His multi-track or what I call the multi-layered approach is the foundation for what I suggest would be a modular, mulitimedia rich and highly interactive online learning environment optimized for tablets and mobile devices. All the features @iguanamon mentions could be just a couple of clicks away. I would add features like text-to-speech software so that I could hear anything that I see and even a speech-to-text module so that I can see what people are saying. And of course access to an array of newspapers and radio and television channels. Even access to tutors (optional, of course) and language buddies. @ignanamon, I and other hispanophiles could meet and chat with a native speaker present to help out. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 66 of 139 29 August 2013 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Heh, I said I hate the concept. Hate hearing that if we aren't required to do as complicated stuff at school as our parents did, then it's a disaster and the education is getting dumbed down and we are doomed... How about letting people have a childhood and a youth? How about not measuring people's intelligence by their progress in school? How about encouraging people to learn about what they want and not considering any knowledge useless? How about respecting global learners more?
I don't think it's right to expect everyone to know (or even want to know) what a verb or an adjective or an object is. But it's ridiculous to think that just because you don't remember it from school (or never knew it in the first place), you are incapable of learning it. A related issue is that every book is supposed to be usable by a monoglot (in Europe one who speaks no English), and this is reasonable, I suppose, but how about catering for non-monoglots too? For example, a Russian who speaks some English and learns another language that has articles will probably rely too much on the English rules, and would benefit from an explicit comparison. Few people study Portuguese without a prior knowledge of Spanish. English-based books shouldn't assume that only English native speakers will use them. Even in my beloved Finland nobody seems to see Swedish as a useful experience for a language learner, even if you're not good at it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 67 of 139 29 August 2013 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think there is one such resource, iguanamnon. If you want to learn Japanese or Mandarin and have the money, you can join Khatzumoto's Silver Spoon. He will basically guide you all the way, step by step.
I think this approach is more valuable than any kind of a new book concerning learning any language. I agree that there should be one or two authors in order not to water the ideas. But I think people should only advice on what they have personal experience with. I don't want general advice, I have enough. I would love to hear advice how to learn language X from beginnings to the high level (approximately C2), which books and products are worth the money and which are not, with which native material to start, which parts of the language should I definitely learn perfectly and which are not as important as old sources think and so on. Wikia's main purpose is not be the book-manual. It began as a kind of crossroads, an easy reference with links to the discussions, guide to common terms and ideas, contents and supplement to the search function. Therefore I agree it will hardly ever fill the bill. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 68 of 139 29 August 2013 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
I understand the feeling behind this, Serpent, but I cannot completely agree. The youth is a one time only opportunity to get education and build your mental capacity and the skills behind the learnt facts and algorithmes. You can learn quite anything later if you want to. But people who are not pushed to learn a lot during youth do have lower intelligence and mental capacity in the end. Not because knowing less facts and having less skills would qualify as lower intelligence per se. But because they haven't trained their brain enough. I agree there should be more respect for global learners (and many other kinds of learners) and as much freedom in choice of what to learn as possible. But I believe vast majority of ways to give children the childhood and let them learn in more fun ways actually hurts them in the long run. The old fashioned "uninteractive" methods had some advantages nothing else does have. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 69 of 139 29 August 2013 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree that "modern" stuff can be stupid and useless, and I didn't really mean that. I mostly meant just free time, especially for teenagers.
For example here in Russia people frown upon the fact that in other countries teens learn in their last year of school what we learn in the 5th, or not giving them marks because "omglol it will hurt them, poor kids yeah right". Or that the teacher can only ask those who volunteer to answer their questions. Or even worse: "I've heard of a boy who was considered mentally retarded here, yet in Spain he became one of the best in his class". Basically, I agree that learning should be a challenge. But more time-consuming or more advanced doesn't necessarily mean better. As you've hinted, it doesn't matter much what exactly you study as long as you study something. I wish more teachers realized that the aim is not (only) to be good at their subject but to be able to think and understand. Edited by Serpent on 29 August 2013 at 11:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 70 of 139 30 August 2013 at 12:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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iguanamon -- I read what you wrote with interest, but the need for all of these individual resources remain. Even if the best learning method was to use a grammar book, a textbook and several other documents, the need for a grammar book and a textbook remains, and the question of how to best structure them remains.
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 71 of 139 30 August 2013 at 3:58am | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't think there's any doubt that individual resources are needed. The question is in what physical form. Will it be a book or more likely, in the future, a multi-media enabled e-book?
For example, do we need another textbook for French grammar unless one has invented some really effective new approach? Of course, there will always be a need for niche products. We here at HTLAL are a prime example of the coming evolution. Sure, we have a lot of books and methods, but we do more and more or our learning online. I'm sure we use electronic dictionaries more than paper ones; we have a list of favourite websites including videos and all kinds of native language materials. And we follow certain blogs that form kinds of learning communities. What is missing in all this is some kind of overall integrated and comprehensive learning environment, a kind of one-stop service where I can fulfill all my language learning needs online. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think we are not too far away. Edited by s_allard on 30 August 2013 at 4:39am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4908 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 72 of 139 30 August 2013 at 8:21am | IP Logged | |||||
Wasn't it Churchill who said, "Youth is wasted on the young"? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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