Language Learning & Introversion (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Language Learning & Introversion
Tags: Introvert and Extrovert \| Personality \| Discrimination
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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Serpent
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Message 17 of 61

09 May 2014 at 3:13pm | IP Logged

Retinend wrote:

Introversion is a nicer phrase than "has weak social skills."

We language learners are very skeptical of people who say they "naturally" struggle. We know that the truth is that some people do have an easier time than others, but that language learning is an attainable skill for anyone, and that everyone needs a lot of practice to get good. I think the same standard should be brought to skills in social situations, and how well we can carry a converstaion with a stranger. If you lack the skills, if you're a mediocrity, be honest with yourself, and say that you're lacking an important skill. If you're unhappy with that, do something to change it.

You don't understand. People vary in how much need for being "social" they have. Just like here on HTLAL we vary in how many languages we want to learn. Many introverts have great social skills, they just have no interest or desire to be surrounded by people all the time. Many introverts can behave like extraverts, they just get drained by it. As the article mentions, many people who enjoy public speaking are introverts. Do they have weak social skills too?

If you are saying that getting energy from being social is an important skill that introverts should strive for, then I disagree.

Also, don't lump together introversion, shyness, social phobia and misanthropy. Some of us are all of the above, but these are completely different things. Extraverts can also be shy or have social phobias. In this case I agree that they should learn or get help, because it sucks to be bad at what you enjoy so much and what gives you energy. So should introverts, if it's a significant problem for them.

But introversion itself is not something to overcome. No, there's nothing more natural about being extraverted than introverted. Why are you assuming other people are like you? In terms of evolution, isn't variety beneficial?

Quote:

The most convincing argument for it is that you can't realistically know a lot of worthwhile stuff (let's say, know a second language well) without spending a lot of your waking hours in quiet reflection, reading and thinking. But while this is true, it does not necessarily mean you must retreat from the world. There is time in the day and your life to do anything you really want. You can be socialable and thoughtful.

Introverts don't permanently retreat from the world. We're not in a shell. Exactly, there is time for everything. We just choose to spend less time being sociable.
Also, a people-focus vs idea-focus is a separate issue altogether. It absolutely doesn't correspond to the introvert/extravert difference.

Edited by Serpent on 09 May 2014 at 3:25pm
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Iversen
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Message 18 of 61

09 May 2014 at 3:41pm | IP Logged

Retinend wrote:

Lastly ,More friends, more laughs, more romance and spark with other human beings: these things are a "universal ideal." Without them, and overcompensating with booksmarts, you're like Causabon in Middlemarch: a dusty prisoner of volumes of lifeless facts, finding soul in abstract ideas rather than living people, and finding truth in true propositions moreso than in the connection with your fellow man. To dismiss these things by calling it "incesant chatter" is a sad reflection of the narcissistic self-delusion that this writer has trapped himself with.

I don't know about Causabon, but I know that incessant chatter is a boring, irritating and brain numbing waste of time. It's only marginally less irritating if it's in one of my target languages, but a good book or Wikipedia usually wins.

Edited by Iversen on 09 May 2014 at 3:44pm
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Gemuse
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Message 19 of 61

09 May 2014 at 6:23pm | IP Logged

Retinend wrote:

finding truth in true propositions moreso than in the connection
with your fellow man.

This is an important issue. Suppose my fellow man/woman is mostly interested in the
happenings of the Kardashian family. I have zero interest in connecting with such a
person. Suppose my fellow man/woman is mostly interested in football. I could give a
rodents butt about football. I have real interest in interacting with a person in two
cases:
1. There is a interest in common.
2. I need, or might need the person in future; in which case I will fake interest and
put on an act.

I however agree that learning to put on an act is an important skill that should be
acquired by introverts.
But we do find it draining.

Edited by Gemuse on 09 May 2014 at 6:24pm
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Medulin
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Message 20 of 61

09 May 2014 at 7:03pm | IP Logged

Retinend wrote:

Introversion is a nicer phrase than "has weak social skills."

We language learners are very skeptical of people who say they "naturally" struggle. We
know that the truth is that some people do have an easier time than others, but that
language learning is an attainable skill for anyone, and that everyone needs a lot of
practice to get good. I think the same standard should be brought to skills in social
situations, and how well we can carry a converstaion with a stranger. If you lack the
skills, if you're a mediocrity, be honest with yourself, and say that you're lacking an
important skill. If you're unhappy with that, do something to change it.

Fluvoxamine (Luvox) can help people overcome social phobia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10327910

Edited by Medulin on 09 May 2014 at 7:05pm
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Bao
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Message 21 of 61

09 May 2014 at 8:08pm | IP Logged

Medulin, I had no idea you were an expert on pharmacology. Just FYI, most new antidepressants and a variety of other drugs, for example atypical antipsychotics have been used to try treatment for issues like anxiety disorders and OCD. With varying results. When those drugs work on some people, they usually only work on a fraction of the test subjects and not all of them. As far as I am aware, if a drug works on a patient the patient still needs therapy because the drug doesn't cure the issues, it just suppresses the symptoms for a while.

As for Retinend, what about talking about things you actually know something about.
Well, I suffer from social phobia: I can hold a conversation with a stranger, I can do public speaking, I can do oral exams and presentations (and appear confident and knowledgeable, whether I am or not), I can make people feel welcome and seem interested and make them have a good time talking to me. It's just that I'm scared witless when I know I will have to do it. And I dislike not being good enough in a second language so that I have to bother the other person with my mistakes.
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cathrynm
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Message 22 of 61

10 May 2014 at 5:51pm | IP Logged

Heh, I don't have social phobia. It's just when people are talking, I'm standing there silently thinking to my self, "Please stop, please just be quiet, if only for a moment."
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Serpent
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Message 23 of 61

10 May 2014 at 6:58pm | IP Logged

Same here. It's kinda like you can be good at a subject but still feel bored in the classroom.
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Bao
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Message 24 of 61

10 May 2014 at 9:16pm | IP Logged

^And you can be good at it, and hate it. =)

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