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How many words to speak? | ||
Tags: Number of words | Speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 1 of 309 31 August 2014 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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I recently saw the awesome video of hyperpolyglot Emanuele Marini speaking 15 languages at the Budapest
Polyglot Conference in 2013. Emanuele Marini I liked that fact that we see Marini speaking to actual people and not one of these talking-head videos where the so-called polyglot just cycles through various languages. But what really struck me was that in the various languages these short, simple and informal conversations only used a small number of different words. Here, in my mind, was a confirmation, if ever one was needed, that you can speak a language well and in certain circumstances with a very small vocabulary. I am sure that Marini has a larger vocabulary in the 30 languages he speaks than what is shown in the video, but it doesn't take a lot to actually start speaking. I have argued that in French 300 words will get you started and that around 1000 words well mastered is all you need to be able to converse well about simple topics. In order to talk about complex topics or technical subjects, you will need a larger vocabulary of course. But the point is that for basic conversation along the lines of this video, a small number of words, good grammar and pronunciation are all you need. You do not need to learn 10,000 words before starting to speak. I wonder what people think about this. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 309 31 August 2014 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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One. You speak a word when it exits your mouth. I suggest "Hodor" as a good example of
how much you need. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5531 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 309 31 August 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||
xkcd: Up Goer Five
You can, of course, vastly reduce the number of words you need if you plan all your conversations in advance, and if you only learn exactly the words you intend to use. Of course, if you want to answer unplanned questions or allow other people to change the subject, your vocabulary requirements go up rather noticeably. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 4 of 309 31 August 2014 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Of course you can speak when you know 300 words, or even 50. The problem is comprehension - you're going to speak better than you understand :) This will make conversations difficult or at least not very enjoyable.
Assuming you agree that one should understand more than 300 words in order to have a conversation, I just wonder why limit one's active vocabulary like that? Also I think it's disrespectful to say "so-called polyglots" just because their videos don't fit your standards. They do fit the definition of *speaking* many languages, even if you're not satisfied because you want to see them having conversations. Edited by Serpent on 31 August 2014 at 2:21pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 5 of 309 31 August 2014 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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In the video we see Marini conversing about simple subjects in 15 languages. He's not talking about the latest
advances in rocket design or interstellar travel. He's shooting the breeze. I don't see that he has planned his conversations in advance. I don't him searching for words or not understanding what people are saying to him. What I see are natural, informal, casual conversations that demonstrate Marini's ability to interact naturally with native speakers. And he can do that in 30 languages. If I could do that in five languages I would be very happy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 6 of 309 31 August 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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That was also not the setup if you've listened to the video. By the way, Mr Allard, I've
personally spoken to many of these polyglots. I can vouch for pretty much all of them. Your condescension can be left at home. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4443 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 7 of 309 31 August 2014 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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The other day I started watching an old TV series from England: "Mind Your Language" produced by
London Weekend Television. Anybody who hasn't seen the show it is about an English teacher Mr. Brown teaching a group of immigrants. In the group you have natives from France, Italy, Spain, India, Pakistan, Hungarian, etc. The show was a comedy and highlighted the problem of having a limited vocabulary. The amount of confusion over grammatical errors, phrases that have more than 1 meanings. For example: In the first episode, the teacher introduced himself as Mr. Brown. The student from Pakistan replied: "No, you are not brown, we are brown and you are white". In another episode the teacher asked: "Where would you take a cheque"? Student: "To Czechoslovakia". Teacher: "Not that sort of cheque, a cheque for certain amounts of money". Then the correct reply: "Ah, to a bank". The confusion was over the word "cheque" vs "Czech". Another question: "Zoltan, where do you buy cigarettes? Which shop?" and he replied: "No shop, Zoltan no smoke" sort of thing. You can pick up a few words & phrases from half-dozen languages but you can't really say you're fluent until you can pick up a conversation and understand it in the correct context. Every language has words & phrases that are native to that part of the world. Even for common words you are going to find difference usages. For example: The word for "to take a bath" commonly used in Hong Kong & the Chinese community in Singapore is 沖涼 (chōngliáng). In China & Taiwan you hear 洗澡 (xǐzǎo). The word in Chinese for 週末 (zhōumò) used by the Chinese communities in the US & Canada refer to the weekend which includes Saturday & Sunday. However, in Asia, most people would work half a day on Saturday, people generally think of 週末 as Sunday excluding Saturday. When a Chinese at the dinner table says: "起 筷" (qǐkuài), this is an expression which means literally "raise your chopsticks" or "we can begin eating". In places where people don't use chopsticks you'd translate the phrase with something that would have a similar context: "We shall start the meal". Like the way Moses McCormick would tackle languages. In the beginning he would make a list of the most frequently used words in a language and start with these to introduce himself in a conversation. These includes: "Hello, my name is...", "I'm a student from the US who is studying languages", "Are you from India? Do you speak Hindi?" this sort of thing to break the ice. You won't be able to discuss anything in depth unless you know enough about the topic of discussion or have a large enough vocabulary to ask questions. If someone in Hong Kong starts a conversation with something from the news recently: 佔中. This is a Chinese acronym for 佔領中環 which translates to "Occupy Central". Central is a district in Hong Kong where the government buildings are located. Occupy Central is a movement to demand democratic elections in Hong Kong for 2017 by protesting in the Central District. Suppose you as a foreigner studied Chinese for a while. A person from Hong Kong asks you what you think of 佔中. How would you respond? Suppose you don't know enough about the topic, would you be able to get into an intelligent conversation? Edited by shk00design on 31 August 2014 at 4:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 8 of 309 31 August 2014 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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Since I don't live in Europe, I go by what I see. I see Marini talking to 15 different people. I'm in awe. If I see
polyglots talking to the camera, I call them talking heads. I also see people, like Richard, Luca, Steve talking to people in various languages. I call them polyglots. What's the problem? But that's a red herring. The real issue is how many words do you need the speak, or, to be more specific, to be able of have conversation like Marini is having in each of those languages. Is it 500, a 1,000 or 5,000? I say it's closer to 500 with good grammar and pronunciation. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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