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REAL multi-languages fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Donaldshimoda Diglot Groupie Italy Joined 4089 days ago 47 posts - 72 votes  Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 102 11 September 2014 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was wondering how many languages you guys actually speak REALLY fluently.
I was watching again some polyglots on youtube after a recent topic brought back the subject and I noticed, as far as my knowledge of the languages allow me to judge, that really few people in really few languages achieved some sort of real fluency. For example I'm yet to find a polyglot with a plausible Italian accent speaking it at "good" pace. I'm talking about languages that you can manage almost like your native one possibily with at least good accent. Edited by Donaldshimoda on 11 September 2014 at 3:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 2 of 102 11 September 2014 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's some pretty high standards. A native-like accent takes years to develop for many. It's also often not a high priority.
Also, bear in mind that for most Italian isn't their strongest foreign language, often not even in the top-3. That's usually English/French/German/Spanish. Besides, standard Italian is somewhat artificial, so those who've been to Italy may have picked up elements of the local dialect. It's very subjective what exactly a "good" accent is. 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5531 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 102 11 September 2014 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I have a few unfair advantages in my native language:
- Nearly 40 years of conversations. - 17 years of school. - 100s of millions of words read. Realistically, I can't recreate that in French unless I move to France and give up English entirely until I'm 80. And even then, I won't get the schooling, or even all the reading (kids get more time to read than adults). And many adults can never quite perfect their accents. So it's inevitable: I'm never going to speak French as well as I speak English. The problem is that a sociable, well-read native speaker with a university degree and a few decades of living has devoted massive hours to their language skills: The kinds of hours that would produce an Olympic athlete or chess grandmaster. Non-natives who truly wish to function at that level need to put in enormous hours, too. So if I can't sound like a native graduate of one of the grandes écoles, what can I do? Here are some numbers based on an English speaker learning French. You might need to double or triple them for a totally unrelated language with a new writing system. - 3 to 5 years of full-time immersion in a sufficiently intellectual and challenging environment will produce a very reasonable approximation of an educated adult. The weakest skill in this situation will probably be writing, unless the learner reads heavily in their new language. - It's possible to keep up with native 4-year-olds after several years of substantial part-time exposure and practice. Seriously, if you've ever struggled to get from B2 to near-native, listen closely to young kids sometimes. They have moments of brilliance, but if you ask them to retell a long story or something, you can definitely see the gaps. - It's possible to function independently in society after 400 to 600 hours of study and exposure, if they're used well. Maybe double that if you want any shot at an office job that requires you to sound intelligent. - Once you can carry on a halting conversation, it's possible to read almost any adult book—and enjoy most TV series—after a couple million words of additional reading and several hundred hours of watching TV. So what can I do in French? - Handle my day-to-day life and any practice tasks which would come up while travelling (up to and including certain kinds of medical emergencies). - Deal with pretty much any parenting task involving younger children. - Find a French speaking contractor, negotiate an agreement, and carry out a successful project over email. - On a good day, explain relatively complicated ideas without annoying my conversational partners. - Speak sufficiently fast and idiomatically that some non-native French teachers ask me to slow down and define words. What can't I do in French? - Sound intelligent with insufficient sleep and no preparation. - Explain complicated ideas quickly on a bad-to-average day. - Deal with movies that use lots of fast, slurred dialog and slang. You'll notice that speaking is my weakest skill. This is because I normally speak with only one native, and occasionally a few other relatives. Even for children, an environment like this is often insufficient to produce truly native-like speaking skills. Basically, I've gotten everything out of my French studies that I could realistically expect to get, given my environment and the time I've invested. Actually, if anything, I've gotten far more than I would have expected—it's surprisingly easy for an adult to reach "pretty good" across a broad range of skills. 20 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4098 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 4 of 102 11 September 2014 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | ||
Or a priority at all. There's a friend of the family who has lived in Sweden for almost 40 years and he doesn't want to get rid of his accent. It's light enough that everyone understands him, but it also part of his identity. I've also heard stories from anglophones living in Paris who have encountered negativity once they have achieved a somewhat believable French accent. People complained that their "sexy" or "cute" English accent disappeared. That refers to people living in the country, married to native speakers, raising families in the language, etc. If they don't necessarily need to or want to perfect the accent, why would polyglots who, for most part, after all, have a fairly small interest in assimilating with the culture/country? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5235 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 5 of 102 11 September 2014 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | ||
Here is a facebook polygot with a fair Italian accent. Luca :) 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 6 of 102 11 September 2014 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Good accent does not mean native-like accent. Unless you have a specific need for a native accent - acting or
undercover spy work - forget about it if you starting the language as an adult. A good accent, in my opinion, is basically an intelligible and unobtrusive manner of speaking. I have always said that a little accent can be a good thing. Most people find it somewhat charming. On the other hand, grammar and usage mistakes are never cute. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6908 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 102 11 September 2014 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | ||
At the Polyglot Gathering in Berlin in June this year, I met many in person who spoke an impressive number of languages impressively well; accent, body language, register - everything. In some cases I could not believe they weren't native speakers of the languages in question. Related topic: Were Youtube polyglots a fad? 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5765 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 8 of 102 11 September 2014 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | ||
Oh, they are, when the person is likeable in general and they don't repeat the same mistake too often. But even then it's easy to get used to somebody's unique take on a language when you spend enough time with them and don't actively dislike them. Also, OP - some days I max out at zero languages spoken natively. 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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