REAL multi-languages fluency (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

REAL multi-languages fluency
Tags: Native Fluency \| Fluency \| Accent
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
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Norway
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Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
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Message 57 of 102

15 September 2014 at 6:16pm | IP Logged

I care for any type of advice right now :-) And I do not understand why she does not get a proper interpreter
either. My hope is that she has, and just does not know it yet, and that I will be told to sit and wait for her in
the hall once we get to the meeting.
1 person has voted this message useful

Luso
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Portugal
Joined 6060 days ago
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Speaks: Portuguese*, French, English^C2, German^B1, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical)

Message 58 of 102

15 September 2014 at 7:45pm | IP Logged

Bao wrote:

As for the small village in Japan or Hungary idea ... I guess it depends on the person and how much they want and need to become part of the local community. And how welcomed they are. Pretty sure Cristina could do it, emk could do it, and so could many other forum members.

I read once that one good technique to motivate yourself is to adopt the "immigrant approach", that is, just picture yourself as having no alternative but to learn, and fast.

Although my experience tells me to ignore most of the advice of these "miraculous" checklists, the fact is that the image stuck.
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JClangue
Newbie
Canada
Joined 3755 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Catalan

Message 59 of 102

15 September 2014 at 9:40pm | IP Logged

Bao wrote:

JClangue wrote:

She was probably relatively close but definitely below that of an equivalently-educated
native. People tend to overestimate their level in things they aren't that advanced in.

I think you are misinterpreteting the Dunning-Kruger effect. Ten years are enough time to
achieve significant proficiency in any skill, if they are used efficiently. After that time
she would not have suffered from overestimating herself as more advanced than she is, like
many people at their first low intermediate stage in a language do. If this was about her
self-assessment (and for all I know it's beano's direct assessment of her skills) and she
suffered from that bias, she would have started out overestimating her skills as
"could barely speak any English" and a decade later, underestimating them as "just as
good as a native", at which point she would probably have been better than most
natives.

As for your idea that a native speaker has a set amount of years of a headstart I would ask
you to think about how much time the average native speaker actually spends on trying to
improve his or her language skills.

I'm not misinterpreting it. Ten years will give you enough time to be proficient in
something, but NOT as good as somebody that has thirty or forty years in the field. (all
variables are equal in this experiment to be objective) I know that in the US you need 13
years of medical training to finish a neurosurgery specialty. You think the 4th year
neurosurgery resident will be as proficient as an attending that has worked 20 years out of
residency and has 20 years of experience, Continuing Medical Education, and thousands of
hours spent reading up on new diagnostic criteria and management of surgical patients?

I think not.

Will the person with 10 years of speaking speak well. Yes. Close to that of a person with 30
years speaking? Yes, due to diminishing returns.

Will people be able to distinguish the two. Most likely.
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
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China
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Message 60 of 102

15 September 2014 at 10:09pm | IP Logged

Ah, haven't you been here before and spouted this old nonsense over and over?
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Bao
Diglot
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Germany
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Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

Message 61 of 102

15 September 2014 at 10:11pm | IP Logged

Seriously, Cristina, when anyone can do that it's you. (I don't want to say if.) Your anxiety is completely understandable, but I think it's mainly because you really care about the people around you and carry the responsibility you take on. I really hope that she does get a professional translator! But if she doesn't, I think you should first complain that she didn't, and that you will need more time for your translations because you are not at the level of a professional translator and have to make sure you get it right. >:\
I really hope everything will turn out alright.

Luso, I think rather than imagining a situation you can't escape it can be enough to choose to engage as much as you are capable of.

JClangue, I provided you with a name for the bias you are trying to talk about. Read up on it.

Edited by Bao on 15 September 2014 at 11:56pm
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Luso
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Portugal
Joined 6060 days ago
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Speaks: Portuguese*, French, English^C2, German^B1, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical)

Message 62 of 102

16 September 2014 at 4:01am | IP Logged

Bao wrote:

Luso, I think rather than imagining a situation you can't escape it can be enough to choose to engage as much as you are capable of.

Sometimes it's enough, sometimes it isn't. In my case, keeping the motivation also means changing methods every once in a while.

I know nowadays it's not fashionable to use negative reinforcement techniques (I'm using the expression in a broad sense), but this can also be expressed in a positive way: "If millions of illiterate adult persons with very scarce resources managed to pull it off throughout history, why can't I do the same? After all, I have excellent means and the support of a community."

I could expand on the "motivation portfolio" idea, but I think it's beyond the scope of this topic.
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Bao
Diglot
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Germany
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Message 63 of 102

16 September 2014 at 8:34pm | IP Logged

I think it's just personal preference.
When I imagine being in such a situation a voice at the back of my mind always says: Uh-nuh, this is only playacting.

But when I think about the possibility that I could end up in such a situation and that I really want to be prepared even if I think it's not all that likely because I know I will regret it if I don't make use of the opportunity to learn that I have right now ... that works for me.

Edited by Bao on 16 September 2014 at 8:57pm
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NewLanguageGuy
Groupie
France
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Speaks: English*

Message 64 of 102

22 September 2014 at 1:54pm | IP Logged

Fluency is not the same as accent.

I know a lot of people who are functionally fluent in foreign languages, but are still
immediately recognised as foreigners.

In my opinion, being functionally fluent does not mean having a "plausible" accent or
otherwise - it simply means being able to interact in the same situations as a native
speaker of that language.

The question of accent only really comes into play with language learners who pride
themselves on not being identified as non-native speakers. This is simply a theatrical
diction exercise.

Just my two pence worth.

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