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"I want to learn X in Y months" - useful? | ||
Tags: Measuring Progress | Goals | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4908 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 9 of 23 09 October 2014 at 8:29am | IP Logged | ||
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"X language in Y months" threads are pretty common. Usually the person needs the language for university, they're usually looking for B1 or B2, and they normally state that they've got loads of study time (4, 6 or even 8 hours a day). I keep following the threads about the languages I study, and I keep hoping that someone will make it. Unfortunately, I can't think of a case in which the person has met their goal. Occasionally, they make a post explaining they've changed their mind, but usually they just drop off the edge of the HTLAL world.
Other posters above have given good reasons why these types of goals usually fail. I'll add two more reasons. First, most beginners underestimate what it takes to function at B1/B2, and how much time it will take to gain those skills. And secondly, studying one subject 4 hours a day is just difficult for most of us, and far more difficult if you're not doing it for yourself. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| chiara-sai Triglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 3707 days ago 54 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Italian*, EnglishC2, French Studies: German, Japanese | Message 10 of 23 09 October 2014 at 8:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I don’t think goals of this type are particularly useful. They may help with increasing the motivation to work hard (as
long as the target isn’t too easy to reach), but it can be difficult to estimate what is a viable goal and what isn’t, and it can be frustrating if you constantly fail to meet your targets. I prefer to give myself goals in terms of hours of study per day. For example at the moment I study an average of 2 hours per day, I’m not sure how quickly I will learn my languages but it doesn’t matter, all I care is that I keep my pace (and adjust it to my life’s circumstances), and I don’t concern myself with how long it’ll take to reach fluency, as that is mostly out of my control (I have some control over how much I study, and how effectively, but there are limits: travelling is expensive and time-consuming, and things such as family, work and university further affect how much free time I have). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 4046 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 11 of 23 09 October 2014 at 8:59am | IP Logged | ||
Hi @Tarvos! I know about your deadlines and I'm currently testing the same model (3-4 months of focused study per language). I find more difficult to divide in activities. I think that probably I need double the time to have the command I would like to have for every language which I desire to also write and speak. Dutch is my beast here :) Also: "set a goal, set a goal that makes sense in the context of your work" that is simple but gold. @Stelle: yes that makes sense indeed. Not everyone reaches the same level using the same resource, but going through will eventually help you to improve in any case. @Serpent: for specific problem you mean something like "I don't get the word order in Dutch"? Or even more specific? @Robarb agree! Someone told me that is really difficult to set realistic goals: the trend is to set too high short terms goals and too low long term ones. This summer I made a little presentation for my company on learning foreign languages (we are consultants with projects abroad so I thought can be interesting for my colleagues). If I ever will do another one it will be very simple: "find what works with you and do it every day". 5 seconds of presentation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7204 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 12 of 23 09 October 2014 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | ||
That's what I like about language logs. You can read or track this "finding of self". It makes me ask, "how does one know thyself"? He have experience, which is not always bitter, but takes a while to accumulate. There are personality tests which are meant to give you some insight. We have following the path set by others more accomplished. Is part of knowing oneself, realizing one may be fiercely independent and the only true path the one that sings to your heart or touches or soul? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6581 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 13 of 23 09 October 2014 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | ||
This is probably not very useful advice for most, but for me meditation has been helpful. Meditation helps you to notice your own thoughts and feelings. That said, there are probably more methods, and writing a log could probably be one of them. You could be scientific about it. Try setting goals, try working with activities, try different things over a longer period and try to track the results. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5235 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 14 of 23 09 October 2014 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I believe these types of goals can very useful. Don't forget that "A goal without a deadline is a wish."
Stelle & Tarvos gave just you everything you need to know about your hitting your goal, except for the one thing I consider critical. MOTIVATION Motivation is the one thing which will determine if you hit your goal or not. And the type of motivation is even more important. If your motivation to learn is as others have said; in order to get a grade at university, then this motivation is called Extrinsic motivation. In other words the motivation is caused by something external to yourself. If you want to learn the language because you like the sound of it, and you love the countries where it is spoken then this is Intrinsic motivation. Intrinsic or internal motivation is the one which will drive you up mountains and over obstacles, it will make you find different ways to study, it will make studying a joy rather than a labour. This is a quote I took from Wikipedia: “Intrinsic motivation refers to motivation that is driven by an interest or enjoyment in the task itself, and exists within the individual rather than relying on any external pressure. Intrinsic Motivation is based on taking pleasure in an activity rather working towards an external reward.” You can try to outsource the job of motivation. You can join a class or hire a tutor. These are legitimate and worthy options. Better, however, is learning to motivate yourself. To start, your motivation won't depend on that class, program, or coach, so you won't stop studying because class is over. If you don't start with intrinsic motivation, if you are studying because you have an exam to pass try to develop intrinsic motivation. Find out more about the culture, the people, in order to develop an interest in the language. Make the actual study activity more interesting, fun and enjoyable. If you like socializing then find people to talk with in that language. If you are a reader, focus on reading comprehension. If you like movies, watch movies in that language. Do the things you enjoy in the language even if it isn't "studying". If you like gardening, or cooking, then find books or programs about that topic to read and watch. Don't compare yourself to others, you aren't them, but you can do better than you've done before! So make this self-improvement part of your language learning. How could I have learned that faster? Is a great question to ask yourself because it establishes your "bar" and then prompts you to exceed it. Look gamification of your studies. When I was just starting to learn french I did a spreadsheet which recorded the hours of study, and these hours translated into experience points which I tracked in a Dungeons and Dragons experience level chart. Sad, perhaps, but not boring and it kept me motivated. So here are some ways to keep your motivation levels up. - Challenge yourself. Discover the relationship between effort and success; between success and motivation by challenging yourself to "mini-goals" like completion of one book, or two movies, or two chapters of your workbook. - Build on your successes don't dwell on failure. If your reading comprehension is good, work on reading. If you have a great pronunciation or good at socialising get out and talk to people. You might think this makes your learning lopsided, but actually it just means you are leading with your strengths and the rest of it will catch up. - Discover choices There is no one best way to learn. Try to find alternative study methods which you might enjoy more. Look for topics which interest you and use learning about those topics with your target language. - Learn to fail Fear of failure sometimes causes people to deliberately, or subconsciously sabotage their own efforts. You will fail, don't doubt that, but don't use it as an excuse to stop. - Learn how to "chunk up" or "chunk down" your tasks Narrowing or broadening the topic to a challenging but manageable size is very important for developing motivation. Not only is this is an essential problem solving strategy, but it is also an essential life skill. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. As each small task is achieved a measure of success is attained, applaud yourself. As the successes mount up your intrinsic motivation will increase. - Use rewards sparingly. You might think rewarding yourself after each little task is helpful, but actually this is external motivation and in the long run it isn't helpful. You need to focus on the enjoyment of task completion and the interest in the study itself. - Develop an internal locus of control. Locus of control is closely related to motivation. Wikipedia quote: "People who have internal locus of control believe that the outcomes of their actions are results of their own abilities. Internals believe that their hard work would lead them to obtain positive outcomes." Your ability to reach your goal depends on you, and nothing else. - Learn to self-evaluate your studies and language use Address the questions: "What was done well?" and "How can it be improved?". This will help you to refine your study times and hopefully fast track your learning. - Don't compare yourself As I already said you are not them. Competition can enhance or reduce motivation depending on how it is used. It is good for some, but it normally results in a few winners and many losers. - Don't be perfect or even try to be Perfectionism goes beyond trying to do ones best. Perfectionism is getting hung-up on being perfect. You aren't going to be perfect, even native speakers aren't perfect. Just do your best. - Find a role model Use someone like EMK, Stelle, Tarvos, Sofrid, Inverson, Serpent, or dozens of others in this forum as your role model. They each seem to learn in different ways, or with different tools, but you will be helped but identifying someone who seems to use methods your like in a way you'd like to do it. Then try to appropriate their methods and strategies, emulate but don't compare yourself with them. - GIGO Gigo is a familiar concept for computer programmers but most people don't know it. It stands for "Garbage In, Garbage Out" and it means if you input junk that is what the computer will give back. Our minds work in a similar fashion. If you want a good output then you need good input. So listen to natives speak, try to speak like them. Try to find good courses and good books. Try to get your input as clean and effective as possible and your output will be clean and effective. OK! Well that was a long old rant on a topic I only wanted to say a sentence or two about. :-) 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4143 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 15 of 23 09 October 2014 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Nice post, redearman!
I have to add, though, that it's natural for motivation (even the intrinsic kind!) to wax and wane. This week, I find myself decidedly UNmotivated by Tagalog. It doesn't mean that I want to quit - it just means that I have to make it through a rough patch. This is where routines, external motivation and long-term wishes can come into play. Truth? If I just went by my gut, I wouldn't bother with Tagalog at all this week (or maybe even this month). But I've put in so much time already, and my long-term wish - to be able to have real conversations with my in-laws in Tagalog - is still strong. If I stop completely, then I'll have to start over with routine-building later. So I'll just scale back my quantitative goals this month. I'll still do something every single day - because I publicly said that I would, because I'm tracking my learning on a simple table and I hate not checking off every day, because I've already built the habit so I may as well. None of these reasons really have anything to do with intrinsic motivation, and that's ok. Before long, my motivation will be waxing instead of waning, and I'll be back to learning for the sheer joy of it. edited to add: By the way, rdearman...I just reread your post...and I have to say again how important and useful your suggestions are! Also, I think that you're talking about the "big picture" intrinsic motivation (i.e. learning for yourself), and I'm thinking more "small details" in this one (i.e. the fun of the moment as opposed to the long-term motivation). I agree with you 100% that big picture intrinsic motivation is key. It's what keeps you going when the day-to-day feels frustrating or boring for a day or a week. Edited by Stelle on 09 October 2014 at 2:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6581 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 16 of 23 09 October 2014 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | ||
I sometimes find it's better to stop if the motivation isn't there, and come back when it returns. This has led to breaks in the study of some of my languages, or of all of my languages, for months at a time, up to a year or two. I find that what's lost is easily regained, and there are other things I could be doing that are enjoyable. That said, as my abilities have increased, I've found that my motivation has been trained to a piont where I now rarely give up language learning for longer periods of time, though I might scale back and let other hobbies take priorities sometimes. There's no shame in taking a break, and for some people this can be preferrable to slogging through without enjoying it. But again it depends on what kind of person you are, of course. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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