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Interesting Chinese/Hungarian similarity | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| aslan Diglot Newbie Turkey Joined 6233 days ago 6 posts - 7 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English Studies: Italian | Message 58 of 97 23 November 2007 at 8:46am | IP Logged | ||
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Italian: da Roma a Istanbul (From Rome to Istanbul)
Turkish: Roma'dan Istanbul'a Italian prepositions versus Turkish suffxes but they are very similar. Italian: ne Mario ne Maria (Neither Mario nor Maria) Turkish: ne Mario ne Maria The same ne... ne... structure in both languages Edited by aslan on 23 November 2007 at 8:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vlad Trilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member Czechoslovakia foreverastudent.com Joined 6584 days ago 443 posts - 576 votes  2 sounds Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, Hungarian*, Mandarin, EnglishC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Serbian, French Studies: Persian, Taiwanese, Romanian, Portuguese | Message 59 of 97 23 November 2007 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Aslan:
I don't think you understood what I was writing about. Of course there are millions of similarities between different languages, we all know that. Leserables: I'm not ignoring your post, I am thinking about my answer. Bare with me! :-) I also want to wait until I talk to the professor of comparative linguistics. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| joan.carles Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6333 days ago 332 posts - 342 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan*, French, EnglishC1, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Hungarian, Russian, Georgian | Message 61 of 97 23 November 2007 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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The polygenesis or monogenesis (many languages developed at the same time or one form of language from which all languages descended) is still a controversial issue. It's not necessarily linked having the first couple Eve and Adam. But anyways, language must have appeared so many thousand years ago that even having monogenesis and therefore Hungarian and Chinese are somehow linked (as all languages would be), the differences are so great that it's almost impossible to prove anything. Unfortunately or not, the script appeared not so long ago.
Concerning the following statement:
Structured language is not a prerogative only of "modern/civilized" societies, it's not even linked to sedentarism. Just think of these peoples like San (Bushmen), Yanomami and others that are seminomads or even nomads (as long as modern states allow them) and yet speak languages as complex as hours. In Northamerica, many of the Indian tribes were also seminomads and their languages haven't evolved only as a consequence of the contact with Europeans and the later infame co-habitation with them in modern USA and Canada. Therefore, language is much older and proof must be given in order to determine if Pitecanthropus, Erectus, Neanderthalensis and so on developed their own language in parallel or there was a point in which a kind of pre-language evolved in a sort of quantum leap to a more structured type (isn't that one of the modern ideas of language?). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vlad Trilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member Czechoslovakia foreverastudent.com Joined 6584 days ago 443 posts - 576 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, Hungarian*, Mandarin, EnglishC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Serbian, French Studies: Persian, Taiwanese, Romanian, Portuguese | Message 62 of 97 01 December 2007 at 4:51am | IP Logged | ||
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Update:
I've been to the department of comparative linguistics and recieved cheers and ovations regarding my theory:-)) just kidding. The professor who is dealing with this topic really exists, but he's comparing Ugro-Finnic and Sino-Tibetan languages as a whole rather than Mandarin-Hungarian (logical procedure) and is not a professor at our university but in Brno, which is 200 km away and I don't know whether I'll ever get there. I will ask for his e mail and send him a letter. joan.carles: What if the nomads living in present day Siberia (or other places) were a part of well developed civilisations, then later separated from them, started living a nomadic life and their language adjusted along the way? I mean... to think that the siberian nomads were living a life like this, around the same locations with a slowly developing but constant and complex languages since their slow transformation from Australopithecus sounds strange to me. I would still believe, that one form of oral comunication was developed among our ancestors.. even if a very 'raw' one which then in return allowed them to get organised in new ways, labor distribution and so on.. and finally spread to the rest of the world, with the necessity to develop oral communication to suit their new needs. (organisation, names for tools, events, time difference, mood difference... and so on). Edited by Vlad on 01 December 2007 at 3:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| joan.carles Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6333 days ago 332 posts - 342 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan*, French, EnglishC1, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Hungarian, Russian, Georgian | Message 63 of 97 19 December 2007 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Well, here you are the proof, there's still nomadic peoples (fighting to keep on) living their own way and yet they have complex languages. Why not? Even if it looks strange to you that others have been evolving in other ways (instead of despising their way of life -I don't mean you're doing, I'm just talking about what happens nowadays with these people -, we could admire what they are good at, like preserving nature in a more sustainable equilibrium), they are there to proof that. What kind of organizations are you thinking about? Sumerian, hittites, Mohenjo Daro? Language is way older than this. By the way, I have a book that I recently found in my bookshelf, almost unread, about another theory linking Hungarians to Malays. Looks more robust and has much more vocabulary cognates than what I've read so far on the Hungarian-Chinese link. Besides it takes into account religion and history as well and not only vocabulary. I'll read it during this Xmas and post some more extensive account of its theory. If anyone's interested its title is: The Legacy of The Barang People: An exploration into the puzzling similarities of the Hungarian and Malay languages, by György Busztin. Did anyone read it in full ? Edited by joan.carles on 19 December 2007 at 2:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vlad Trilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member Czechoslovakia foreverastudent.com Joined 6584 days ago 443 posts - 576 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, Hungarian*, Mandarin, EnglishC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Serbian, French Studies: Persian, Taiwanese, Romanian, Portuguese | Message 64 of 97 01 March 2008 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Update:
Still no proof:-) In page 6 of this thread I wrote, that the Hun name Attila is a very common name in present day Hungary thus implying a relation between the Huns and Hungarians and if the Huns are somehow related (or are) the Xiongnu tribe living in ancient northern China basically trying to say, that there might be a relation between Hungarian and Mandarin. A couple of weeks ago I read a nice book, which is called: Empires of the world: A language history of the world by Nicholas Ostler (anyone read it?) and there I read that the name Attila is probably of Gothic origin and means Father. How did it get into both languages (Hungarian and Hun) I don't know. I also came up with the longest possible stretch ever:-) when it comes to similarities, but it's a grammatical and not a lexical one and it goes like this : In Mandarin the word 有(you3) can be used as both 'to have' or 'to be (there are)' 他有一本书。ta1 you3 yi1 ben3 shu1. He has a book 那儿有一本书。nar4 you3 yi1 ben3 shu1. There is a book. (can I actually say this sentence this way?) In Hungarian Neki van egy könyv - he/she has a book. Ott van egy könyv - there is a book. with 'van' being the 3rd person present tense singular for both the verbs 'to be' and 'to have'. Only based on this short example I can see another 50 things that are different between the two languages, but I promised that if I find small noteworthy similarities I will share and face the firing squad :-) I am realistic and believe that finding a tangible similarity between the two languages is close to impossible, but I also believe that all languages have one common ancestor and would love to see proof for that by finding a link between two such distant languages. Edited by Vlad on 28 April 2008 at 3:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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