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Cases | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6316 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 9 of 37 31 March 2008 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Really? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Makrasiroutioun Quadrilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Canada infowars.com Joined 6106 days ago 210 posts - 236 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Armenian*, Romanian*, Latin, German, Italian Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 37 01 April 2008 at 1:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yep. You can really about it on many online articles or even on Wikipedia. It's like for Standard German, but a century or two more advanced in the decay of the genitive. In written German it is still considered outright wrong to systematically replace the genitive with the dative. There is even a book written about this with a funny title... something about Der Dativ and... Tod and Genitiv something...
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| Gilgamesh Tetraglot Senior Member England Joined 6242 days ago 452 posts - 468 votes 14 sounds Speaks: Dutch, English, German, French Studies: Polish | Message 11 of 37 01 April 2008 at 4:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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The book you are referring to is called "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod". ;)
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| Makrasiroutioun Quadrilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Canada infowars.com Joined 6106 days ago 210 posts - 236 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Armenian*, Romanian*, Latin, German, Italian Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 12 of 37 01 April 2008 at 10:57am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yeah that's the one!
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| Tonitrus Groupie United States Joined 6091 days ago 64 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 13 of 37 05 April 2008 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Those look like absolute nightmares! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 14 of 37 05 April 2008 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If you were learning these languages, I'm sure that you'd get used to them. One thing to remember is that there is no grammatical gender in Hungarian. Latin declension could be arguably as much pain as that of Hungarian's overall. The number of cases in Hungarian seems overwhelming but each ending is distinct. The number of cases in Latin doesn't look as overwhelming, but you'd then discover that each case must also account for gender, number and/or "noun class".
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| Gary Rector Diglot Newbie Korea, South languagewatch.korea. Joined 6088 days ago 15 posts - 17 votes Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 15 of 37 07 April 2008 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||
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All languages have cases, but not all languages have inflected case endings. It's misleading to present the so-called cases of Finnish and Hungarian, which are agglutinative languages, as though they were the same as the declensions of languages like German or Latin or Russian. Finnish, Hungarian, and Turkish seem to work similarly to Korean and Japanese: you don't have to memorize declensions; you learn particles that you tack onto the nouns to show the role they are playing in the sentence. The particles are the same for all nouns, so the burden on the memory is not nearly as great as it is for languages like Russian, where you can't really separate the case endings from the noun itself. Having said that, I should add that there may be a couple different versions of a particle which are automatically selected depending on the vowels in the noun (as in Turkish) or on whether the noun ends in a vowel or a consonant (as in Korean). I would never present Korean nouns and their particles to a prospective learner as if they were cases (with names like nominative, genitive, addessive, instrumental, and so on and so forth) he had to memorize, because I wouldn't want to frighten the poor person away from learning the language before he even got started.
Gary Rector 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6151 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 16 of 37 07 April 2008 at 6:12am | IP Logged | |||||
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While Hungarian seems to have a lot more cases than Russian, they seem to be more regular than similar Russian cases, or am I wrong ?
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