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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Makrasiroutioun Quadrilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Canada infowars.com Joined 6106 days ago 210 posts - 236 votes  Speaks: French*, English*, Armenian*, Romanian*, Latin, German, Italian Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 25 of 37 10 January 2009 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you very much, Iversen, for mentioning the full title. Coincidentally, since the last time I wrote on this thread, I have already read vol. 1 and 2 and they were very pleasant reads. I learned quite a bit.
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| vaasha Tetraglot Newbie Czech Republic lelaon.com Joined 5786 days ago 13 posts - 14 votes Speaks: Czech*, English, Norwegian, Finnish Studies: Welsh | Message 26 of 37 22 January 2009 at 3:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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It should be also considered that languages like Hungarian and Finnish even though they have more cases then inflexional languages like Russian, Czech and I think also Latin the cases are not the same.
Finnish has 14-15 cases and circa 30 possible endings which are sticked to the end of the word and marks usually only one gramatical category. On the other hand Czech enddings have more features and there is something like 30 paradigms multiplied by 7 cases in singular and plural it's gives me circa 400 endings (some are repeating among paradigms). And there are often some changes in stem as well both in Czech and Finnish as I suppose is in many other languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 37 25 January 2009 at 2:39am | IP Logged | |||||
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.. which nicely sums up one major difference between agglutinating and flexive languages. Flexive languages are just agglutinating languages that through sound changes, laziness, general disorderliness and simple wear and tear have lost the simplicity of the original agglutinative concept, and therefore the speakers of these languages with a few exceptions (German, Icelandic, Russian) are now frantically trying to get rid of the chaotic endings of their insanely complicated morphology. Instead the flective speakers have to use prepositional syntagms to express the same general ideas that the agglutinationists express through affixes, and even this generally results in a confused state that only can be learned as a lot of idiomatic exceptions to mostly nonexistant rules. Btw. the languages I mentioned have opted for BOTH having the trouble of using prepositions AND combining them with explicit cases - some people are masochists! Besides they use agglutinative techniques in the word formation processes of their languages, but with a hefty and objectively seen unnecessary dose of irregularity.
Would it be as fun to study languages, if languages were totally streamlined exercises in combinatorics? Methinks not. Edited by Iversen on 25 January 2009 at 2:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 28 of 37 25 January 2009 at 10:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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I find it more pleasurable to know how to use a language properly and efficiently than do all sorts of mental gymnastics while studying it. Learning Estonian is a pain, but using it is what I'm after.
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| Olekander Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5883 days ago 122 posts - 136 votes Speaks: English*, French, Russian | Message 29 of 37 27 January 2009 at 8:55am | IP Logged | |||||
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Sorry, I no I shouldn't do this, but I feel it may help.
Circa is mainly only used when talking about years in the distant past. It took place circa 23 A.D or 5 B.C. It is almost never said as an alternative for "around". This is a much simpler word to use. Oh and p.p of to stick is stuck. As for the discussion. Am I getting the impression that Slavonic was agglutinative, and is now the result of a long history of morphology due to lazy speakers? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| farrioth Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6090 days ago 171 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Esperanto, Sanskrit, Japanese | Message 30 of 37 29 January 2009 at 4:30am | IP Logged | |||||
I, as a native speaker, have no objection to Vaasha's use of 'circa'.
I believe all Slavic languages are fusional, so I think not. I'm not exactly sure what a "long history of morphology" is, either. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Olekander Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5883 days ago 122 posts - 136 votes Speaks: English*, French, Russian | Message 31 of 37 29 January 2009 at 4:47am | IP Logged | |||||
I believe this was the post I was refering too. I trust iversen as an experianced linguist to share accurate information. I may well have totally mis interpreted the post, but It seems to me that he is implying that they were once agglutinatve. No? As for morhpology, where is the problem? Greek, move/change. Morphology is the changing of language over a number of years? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6148 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 32 of 37 29 January 2009 at 6:31am | IP Logged | |||||
Well, Proto-Indo-European was already fusional, for an agglutinative ancestor you might have to go back to the origins of agriculture or beyond. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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