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Speaking Croatian to a Serb - Diplomacy Q | ||
Tags: Diplomacy | Serbian | Serbo-Croatian | Croatian | Language Politics | Cultural Identity | Speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| JohannaNYC Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4450 days ago 251 posts - 361 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, Italian Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 17 of 38 01 October 2012 at 3:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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So you were all right, I had nothing to worry about. Except for forgetting what little Croatian I know the
moment he started asking questions. Luckily, I brought my FLR cheat-sheet which helped me relax and regain some of my lost vocabulary. We talked about the different dialects from different regions and how Serbs don't pronounce the j ljepa. He listened to a bit of my Pimsleur Croatian and said it sounded very nasal to his ear, but that is how Croatians speak, especially in Zagreb. So it was a great experience, hopefully I'll get to practice some more next week. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 18 of 38 01 October 2012 at 6:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||
See? Nothing to sweat, I'm glad it went well. Feel free to post any language-related questions on this forum, if you wish, but if you have a live native speaker on hand, you're set. Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 19 of 38 01 October 2012 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm Croatian, and I don't use the word računalo ever.
When I was a kid, racunalo was an abacus, and I still use it only in this meaning. Kompjuter (or kompjutor) (instead of računalo) and avion (instead of zrakoplov) are allowed words in Croatian, they are not prohibited, just like datum (instead of nadnevak), or pogreska (instead of pogrjeska). Only those who vote for right wing parties use these new Croaticisms. Croatian has two official spellings, ''a Serbo-Croatian'' one (which uses pogreška, preko ceste, bregovi) and ''a new Croatian'' (which forces (I)JE in every word instead of E: pogrješka, prijeko ceste, brjegovi, and new invented words). This is similar to differences between two spellings of Norwegian Bokmaal (Radical Bokmaal, which is close to Norwegian dialects), and Riskmaal (which is an offshoot of Dano-Norwegian). When the new left wing government was elected last year, 1st thing they did was change the name of the ministry of sport, from Ministarstvo športa to Ministarstvo sporta. No one uses šport instead of sport in spoken Croatian, except for people born before 1920. Edited by Medulin on 01 October 2012 at 10:25pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4857 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 20 of 38 01 October 2012 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thank you very much, Medulin. So, it seems, that only some people would like to divide everything, including languages ;) Pity, that in some other fields they are more successful...
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 21 of 38 01 October 2012 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Nice to read. Most Serbs do indeed use e for what Croats would often pronounce as ije or je, but this isn't universal. Some Serbs (especially among those living in Croatia and Bosnia) would use ljepa for lepa natively.
These observations are corroborated by this study which analyzed lexical choice within Croatian media. The frequency of Croaticisms was positively related to the degree of national ideology expressed by the outlet's staff. Edited by Chung on 02 October 2012 at 12:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 22 of 38 02 October 2012 at 3:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Just out of curiosity, is this new Croatian spelling based on the way words were before the time of the Illyrian movement/Yugoslavia - or based on other Croatian dialects - or is this totally artificial? My impression was that obviously there's not a 1-to-1 between ekavian "e" and ijekavian "ije" as there are many words in ijekavian with "e" and some words in ekavian with "je." So arbitrarily making every "e" word into an "ije" word would be kind of stupid. Unless they went back to the Old Church Slavonic texts, found what roots used yat and then decided that any modern word that uses such a root needs to become "je" or "ije," even if it naturally didn't develop that way in Croatia. Edited by Merv on 02 October 2012 at 3:36am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 23 of 38 02 October 2012 at 3:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think there is almost no distinction in the way Croatian Serbs speak/spoke from the way their Croat neighbors speak. I was very surprised while listening to an interview that the words tisuća (instead of hiljada) and samostan (instead of manastir) were used, since I had assumed that at least they had some vocabulary distinctions. They probably do, but they may be rarer than I had initially suspected. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 24 of 38 02 October 2012 at 7:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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For a point of clarification, it's lijepo, not ljepo.
Recognizing when to spell "ije" vs. "je" is one of the harder things in transitioning from ekavian to ijekavian. My father did this as a kid when moving from Belgrade to Zagreb. And it can change between "ije" and "je" in inflected forms: lijepo (beautiful) > ljepše (more beautiful) In this example, you go arguably from one kind of "l" + a distinct "ee-ye" sound to the very different "lj" phoneme + an open "e" 1 person has voted this message useful |
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