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How Broadcasters Say "Beijing" | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6655 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 1 of 37 16 August 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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NBC's Pronunciation Conundrum in Beijing
Agreed. They've had issues with pronouncing words in other Olympics. How hard can it be to pronounce "Beijing" when you are surrounded by tons of native speakers? "Williams told the AP he asked around when he got to China—NBC News’ Chinese-born Beijing staff, cab drivers, local broadcasters, interns. Everyone he spoke to used “jing.” He said he’s tried to honor that, while admitting to a few slips. “It’s all about being a good guest,” he said." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chelovek Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6087 days ago 413 posts - 461 votes 5 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 2 of 37 16 August 2008 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's a foreign word. Chill out. Pretty much all other languages mispronounce the names of American cities, and it's expected because they aren't from that country. Chicago isn't "She-ka-GO", like the French say it, nor is it Chee-KA-ga, like the Russians say it.
Edited by chelovek on 16 August 2008 at 7:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 37 16 August 2008 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mispronouncing foreign words is normal, when those words have strange sounds in them that are missing in your language.
But in the case of Beijing many TV and radio people are going out of their way to mispronounce it "zhing" with a sound that doesn't even exist in English *, while the j-sound that does exist would be much closer. As it says in the article above, “You have to work to get it wrong”. And they do. * EDIT: Correction: As shown further down in this thread, and contrary to what is claimed by the article, that sound does exist in English in words like treasure, leisure, closure, measure etc. Apologies for that. Edited by Hencke on 17 August 2008 at 8:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chelovek Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6087 days ago 413 posts - 461 votes 5 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 37 16 August 2008 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
It's still a foreign word, thus there isn't really anything to reference it to. People see "Beijing", they know it's a foreign word, so they assume it might have a more exotic, foreign sound to it. Not to mention, the "zh" pronunciation is fairly common. Many people pronounce it that way simply because that's what they've heard all their life. Regardless, it doesn't matter. If we were botching the pronunciation while speaking Chinese, that'd be a different story. But we're not. Edited by chelovek on 16 August 2008 at 8:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6786 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 5 of 37 16 August 2008 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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As I see it, people will pronounce it however. People "mispronounce" placenames as compared to in the native language all the time; often enough, they're more different from one another than one phoneme.
We should have heard such complaints at the Olympics in Munich; those insensitive Americans refusing to call it München, the nerve! There's a sound that actually doesn't exist in English, by the way (actually, a couple). Also, I don't understand how they're asserting that the /Z/ <zh> sound doesn't exist in English--it does exist, in words such as 'treasure'. (By some pronunciations, there exists a minimal pair between 'ledger' and 'leisure', I know there's at least another one but can't think of it at the moment.) This reads to me like some people with too much time on their hands being oversensitive on what's a non-issue in order to feel self-important. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6655 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 6 of 37 17 August 2008 at 12:57am | IP Logged | ||
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It's not about being perfect, but doing the best you can, which Williams did. Now, he was in Beijing and he had access to all these native speakers. But the other anchors had the resources to determine the correct pronunciation of the city, given their network access. They just had to ask one person who was a native speaker to help them with the information. Being located in places like New York or Los Angeles, I know there is no shortage of native Chinese speakers in those areas.
Of course, American reporters wouldn't call Munich "Munchen". Then, Americans may not recognize it. They are broadcasting to an American audience, so they need to consider what they understand. The news media have an extra responsibility as they set the standard and model for what is acceptable speech in society. However they say it is what the average citizen will pick up on and imitate. They need to make more of an effort than the average citizen in the language they use. When one comes across a word transliterated into your language, it is better to read it as it appears phonetically. At least that would have some merit. That would be reasonable given the situation. I don't think it's too much to ask a reporter to know how to say the name of the city hosting a major world event like the Olympics. It's just one word after all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6372 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 37 17 August 2008 at 1:15am | IP Logged | ||
That's exactly what I had heard my whole life. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| qklilx Moderator United States Joined 6186 days ago 459 posts - 477 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 37 17 August 2008 at 2:11am | IP Logged | ||
Two others in this thread said that they heard "bay-zhing" throughout their lives, and I'll be the third to say so. The standard is "bay-zhing" and thus it is what the Americans will understand. The difference is similar to if I were to say "te kwon do" instead of "tai kwon do." People will not understand it easily. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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