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Dialect continuums in between 2 languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| SPINMASTER X Tetraglot Newbie United States myspace.com/spinmastRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5922 days ago 14 posts - 15 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Portuguese Studies: Dutch Studies: Italian | Message 1 of 8 11 September 2008 at 5:30am | IP Logged | |||||
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Do you find dialect continuums intriguing? Before I was stationed in Germany I had always thought there were clear defined cultural and language lines inbetween countries. After travelling around for a while and speaking with locals around the border I found that it wasn't so.
An examples of what I'm talking about is when my landlord goes to Luxembourg. He doesn't speak Luxembourgish so he uses the dialect from his village here in Germany and he doesn't have any problems being understood or understanding them. Its because there is a dialect continuum from Germany to Luxembourg. The closer you get to Luxembourg the more the dialects resemble luxembourgish and vice versa with Germany. Another example was when I we were taking a taxi from our hotel room to a club in Beek, Holland(right next to the border of Germany) and we asked the taxi driver about the local dialects spoken in the area and he said the dialect on both sides of the borders was the same but it was slightly closer to German. Another one that isn't so much a dialect contiuum but similar and interesting nonetheless is the Province of "Lorraine" in France. It borders Germany and Luxembourg. There are many dialects of German spoken in this province(similar to the dialects where I live and in Luxembourg) and where my friend lives the people actually speak a mix of German and French(2 unrelated languages!!). When I found these things out I couldn't believe them. Being the language geek I was I practically flipped my lid! I didn't even think something like that was possible. Who would think that the lines of languages would be blurred? Most people think it either is or isn'tm, but there are so many gray areas. I'm a total geek when it comes to stuff like this but it's pretty interesting no? Edited by SPINMASTER X on 11 September 2008 at 5:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6151 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 2 of 8 11 September 2008 at 5:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree it's a very interesting topic. I noticed that in Catalan, while in Barcelona, they've a colloquial "Thank You" which is "merci", and pronounced similar to the English mercy and not the French "merci", while "Good Night" is "Bona nit", similar to the French "Bonne Nuit". Catalan is it's own language, and not a dialect, but I guess there might be continuums that take Spanish to French via Catalan.
I wonder if these dialect continuums are found in the Slavic languages ? Are there towns and villages which have a mutually intelligible dialect between Czech and Polish ? Edited by DaraghM on 11 September 2008 at 5:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| SPINMASTER X Tetraglot Newbie United States myspace.com/spinmastRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5922 days ago 14 posts - 15 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Portuguese Studies: Dutch Studies: Italian | Message 3 of 8 11 September 2008 at 7:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, I've read alot about catalan but I've never heard it spoken. I'm sure catalan is probably related to a bunch of dialects in that particular region that form dialect continuums.
On wikipedia it actualy talks about the dialect continuums in the Slavic Languages. I'm sure the Slavic and Germanic languages are the best examples of dialect continuums 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6665 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 4 of 8 11 September 2008 at 8:24am | IP Logged | |||||
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I come from the region where Luxemburg, France, and Germany meet (20 km from the common border) and I absolutely agree what you describe. However, as dialect use becomes less common in Germany and younger Frenchmen rarely speak German nowadays, I'd guess that there'll be clear cut linguistic borders in a couple of generations.
And yes, there is a Germanic dialect continuum in the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland: Between Amsterdam and Vienna, the local dialects of neighboring towns are mutually intellegible. The same seems to be true for the Romance languages in Western Europe. Interestingly, the linguistic border between Danish and German is sharp! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 5 of 8 11 September 2008 at 9:15am | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed they are. There's a Czech-Polish town called Cieszyn / Český Těšin that's very close to Slovakia and split by the border of Poland and Czech Republic What they speak there is a transitional Western Slavonic dialect called Lachian (or colloquially "po naszymu" meaning "in our [language]"). It came off as a mix of Czech, Polish and Slovak when I first encountered it. There are other instances of transitional speech between the borders of Poland and Slovakia, Czech Republic and Slovakia, Serbia, Macedonia and Bulgaria and Slovenia and Croatia. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| SPINMASTER X Tetraglot Newbie United States myspace.com/spinmastRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5922 days ago 14 posts - 15 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Portuguese Studies: Dutch Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 8 11 September 2008 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
Where exactly in that area do you come from? My friends in lorraine live in Forbach, Sarralbe and Rimling. And I agree with you about the younger generation not speaking the dialects. Sometimes people make fun of people when they speak platt/dialect and call them "Farmers" or say they are uneducated. To me it has a strong cultural significance and they shouldn't let it go. I come from a culture in southern mississippi/louisiana that spoke french and most of us have lost our language and many of us are trying to relearn it. Like they say, "you don't know what you've got til its gone". I'd hate to see it happen to somebody else. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 7 of 8 11 September 2008 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The form of dialectal German spoken in Cologne has some vocabulary that is nearer to standard Dutch than to standard Hochdeutsch. Not an area I've gone into deeply, but I am sure there are other examples.
Dialects generally are being undermined by standardised media and standardised education systems - it is no accident that it is less well-educated people who are more likely to hang onto dialect. Edited by William Camden on 11 September 2008 at 2:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| peterlin Tetraglot Groupie Poland peterlin.jzn.pl Joined 6415 days ago 54 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Polish*, Persian, English, Russian | Message 8 of 8 12 September 2008 at 2:30am | IP Logged | |||||
But when talking to -or in presence of- Poles from other parts of Poland they speak standard Polish. I was actually surprised how little of the real dialect you can hear when you stay in town and are not actively fishing for it (ie. don't attempt to eavesdrop the locals :). Polish-MountaineerPolish ('gwara góralska)-MountaineerSlovak-Slovak is probably the most 'visible' (because it's a touristy region) continuum of all, but the situation is similar along the other inter-Slavic borders. Edited by peterlin on 12 September 2008 at 2:30am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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