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A continuation of the endless I/O talk | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tpark Tetraglot Pro Member Canada Joined 7045 days ago 118 posts - 127 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Dutch, French Personal Language Map | Message 113 of 126 01 December 2008 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
If you are concerned about correct output, techniques such as shadowing (where you are copying something that is already correct) or working with a native speaker who is willing to correct errors will help. It isn't necessary to speak a language perfectly before using it. I know that my Dutch is far from perfect, but I still use Dutch instead of English when speaking with my wife's relatives. I find that writing, then having someone else check for errors is also helpful for learning. People have different ways of learning. I suppose the desired level of competency and the time available would be important when choosing an approach to a language. Lots of people speak English imperfectly and they are still understood. If that's good enough, then other language learning techniques may not be needed. I see value in using courses and a methodical approach to language learning, but as they say, "your mileage may vary". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 114 of 126 02 December 2008 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
Maybe Arguelles Shadowing is the best technique I've found here and it's output from the very beginning. I think Pimsleur approach is good too, however I think M.Thomas is better.
I agree, but I think reading books, listening audio books and watching films are a method too. I am not against courses or methods, I am against the best method or course approach. I think the first goal is to find out a method that i's going to work for us in the long run. I am more concerned about long term goals and I put more emphasis in not giving up contact with the target language in the long run. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 115 of 126 03 December 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
You're confusing two things: "a method that is going to work it the long run" "a method that you don't give up" A method can only work in the long run if you don't give it up. However, a method that you don't give up might not work in the long run. I think I already demonstrated this with my example with the kite and the kings of France. If you want a less frivolous example, I know people who have been learning Gaelic for many years, taking evening classes, intensive summer schools, reading magazines, listening to the radio and watching TV, but have never been able to achieve anything that might be accepted as fluency. They have not given up. They put in the time. So what's missing? All it can be is the method -- it's not working for them, even though they have not given up. Which is why I say you are oversimplifying the matter here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 116 of 126 03 December 2008 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
Ah, but what about a well-known fact that in the long run we are all dead? Wouldn't you then say that an approach that allows you to learn your target language before you are dead is objectively better than the one that doesn't? Edited by frenkeld on 03 December 2008 at 3:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 117 of 126 03 December 2008 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, but if you don't give up, you will maintain contact with the language and you can change your approach. You are gaining experience. If you give up, everything is lost.
Yes, I am oversimplifying. First and foremost we need to ask them about their goals. Maybe they are not achieving fluency, but they achieve what they want. Maybe they are happy. Maybe they are not happy enough because they just need more time every day. Sometimes this is my problem. Maybe they need more intensity. Maybe they are handicapped. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 119 of 126 03 December 2008 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
You don't need to resort to dead. You have an objectively worse method when it doesn't have input or output or it's so boring that you lose intensity. Learning languages doesn't have any secret. It's about learning words, sentences with this words and repetition. You need reading practice, listening practice, writing practice and speaking practice. A lot of times the big problem is to find enough time. It's my number one problem. On the other hand, if you only want to read, a method with only reading practice is good enough. It depends on your goals. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tpark Tetraglot Pro Member Canada Joined 7045 days ago 118 posts - 127 votes Speaks: English*, German, Dutch, French Personal Language Map | Message 120 of 126 03 December 2008 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
I too have limited time to study. I recognize the value of practice, but focused study of a language lets me approach more difficult materials. I would like to make as much progress as possible in the time that I apply to language learning, so by necessity I take a methodical approach to the problem. I think that once you've reached a certain level of skill, further advancement becomes somewhat easier. Once you can understand what people are saying most of the time and can form a reasonable response, it's a lot easier to add to your working vocabulary. It seems to me that your language objectives are different than mine. Understanding the spoken language and being able to converse with other people is my primary goal. To each his own. In any event, I'm glad that I've been able to read about what other people have done to learn their target languages. The courses and suggestions have saved me a great deal of time and effort. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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