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math82
Newbie
United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5426 days ago
17 posts - 30 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian
| Message 49 of 83 18 April 2012 at 1:49am | IP Logged |
@Splog
I have started listening many many times to very focused vocabulary and phrases, soley to concentrate on certain sounds that I was having trouble with.
I know this may not be the most natural method as the phrases are mostly out of context of natural speech, and of course single words won't help with prosody, but,in order to zero in on those few sounds that I had problems defining, I think it can help.
I understand perfect pronunciation doesn't automatically follow, but hearing the sound perfectly to start with at least gives us a chance.
This site has 1000s of short sound files, a few seconds long... you could easily get through 1000s of repetitions fairly quickly.
http://ru.forvo.com/
1 person has voted this message useful
| tastyonions
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4664 days ago
1044 posts - 1823 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Spanish
Studies: Italian
| Message 50 of 83 23 April 2012 at 2:49am | IP Logged |
s_allard wrote:
In passing, I'd like to point to a website that I like a lot for French
and Spanish (www.langcal.com) that just had a makeover. One of the things that they sell
is a recording, transcription and technical commentary of a totally unrehearsed recording
of a conversation in French. It's real eye-opener for anybody who wants to speak French.
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Wow, thanks for recommending this! I have been looking off and on for exactly this kind
of thing: transcript + translation + explanation of real, unscripted French conversation.
I wish there were a lot more of this type of material out there.
Edited by tastyonions on 23 April 2012 at 2:49am
1 person has voted this message useful
| carlonove
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5985 days ago
145 posts - 253 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian
| Message 51 of 83 23 April 2012 at 6:30am | IP Logged |
tommus wrote:
Four-Minute English - Dutch Connectors.
Once upon a time, long ago, people developed languages.
Ooit, lang geleden, ontwikkelden mensen talen.
Understandably, in the beginning, speech was simple but nonetheless essential.
Begrijpelijkerwijs was spraak aanvankelijk eenvoudig maar toch noodzakelijk.
Without question, that is an exaggeration because, in no case is it one hundred percent
true.
Dat is zonder meer een overdrijving, omdat het in geen geval voor honderd procent waar
is.
It is exactly right only up to a certain point.
Het is maar exact tot op zekere hoogte.
Most certainly, there are those who have their own opinions.
Natuurlijk zijn er mensen met hun eigen meningen.
If I am not mistaken, (and I'm no expert), cavemen, frankly speaking, and all joking
aside, couldn't speak very well.
Als ik het goed heb (en ik ben geen expert), konden holbewoners, eerlijk gezegd, en
alle gekheid op een stokje, niet goed praten.
I presume it was fit for purpose, but in my opinion, I would like to think that it
sounded good to them.
Ik neem aan dat het werkte waar het voor bedoeld was, maar mijns inziens mag ik graag
denken dat het ze goed in de oren klonk.
Don't be upset if you believe that Neanderthals actually, now and then, had
conversations with each other, albeit, from time to time, a bit laborious.
Wees niet ongerust als je gelooft dat Neanderthalers eigenlijk, toen en nu, gesprekken
met elkaar voerden, hoewel die van tijd tot tijd een beetje bewerkelijk waren.
It seems to me that hunting, certainly to some extent, was a bit dangerous.
Me dunkt dat jagen, tot op zekere hoogte, een beetje gevaarlijk was.
More and more, they had to communicate for the purpose of, in the first place, staying
alive, and in the second place, finding food.
Steeds meer moesten ze communiceren om, ten eerste, in leven te blijven, en ten tweede,
om eten te vinden.
As you may know, they had spears, and, if that is true, I'd like to emphasise that,
even though the spears were sharp, nevertheless, they were not very effective.
Zoals je zou kunnen weten, hadden ze speren, en als dat waar is, dan wil ik benadrukken
dat hoewel de speren scherp waren, dat ze ondanks dat niet erg effectief waren.
Even so, I am told, their strong arms, or to be more precise, their strong muscles,
saved the day.
Toch is mij verteld dat hun sterke armen, of om preciezer te zijn, hun sterke spieren
hun tot redding waren.
In those days, history has pointed out, in a manner of speaking, that all was not lost.
In die tijd, zo heeft de geschiedenis uitgewezen, op een bepaalde manier, dat alles
niet verloren was.
I recently heard, by the way, that animals, as far as I know, were bigger but much
slower.
Ik heb laatst gehoord, trouwens, dat dieren voor zover ik weet, groter maar langzamer
waren.
That is not to say that they were friendly.
Dat wil niet zeggen dat ze vriendelijk waren.
Far from it.
Verre van dat, zelfs.
I have the impression that they were fierce, and I would like to think, had a mind of
their own, if you could call it a mind.
Ik heb de indruk dat ze erg fel waren, en ik mag graag denken dat ze een eigen
gedachtengang hadden, als je het een gedachte kan noemen.
To tell the truth, I don't believe a word of it.
Om de waarheid te zeggen, geloof ik er niets van.
I hope that you understand me when I say that I am not certain whether I know what I am
talking about.
Ik hoop dat je me begrijpt wanneer ik zeg dat ik niet zeker weet waar ik het over heb.
You never know, do you?
Je weet het nooit, toch?
But I have the impression that, and I would like to emphasise that, truth is stranger
than fiction.
Maar ik heb wel de indruk dat, en daar wil ik nadruk op leggen, dat de waarheid
vreemder is dan fictie.
Without doubt, I agree.
Zonder twijfel.
Prehistoric life, in other words, not life as we know it, was not fertile ground for
languages.
Prehistorisch leven, met andere woorden, niet het leven zoals wij dat kennen, was geen
vruchtbare grond voor talen.
Yes, the need was there, or to say it another way, there were no books; that I can
assure you.
Ja, er was een noodzaak, of om het anders te zeggen, boeken bestonden niet; dat kan ik
je verzekeren.
But, between you and me in any case, I think we can agree on the possibility, as far as
I am concerned, that we can forget about the past.
Maar tussen jou en mij, denk ik dat we het eens zijn over de mogelijkheid, voorzover
het mij betreft, dat we het verleden kunnen vergeten.
Frankly speaking, it is the future that counts.
Eerlijkheidshalve is het de toekomst die telt.
Anyway, I must say that this is such a difficult question.
Ik moet sowieso zeggen dat dit zo'n moeilijke vraag is,
But it is a good question.
Maar het is een goede vraag.
For the life of me, I can't figure out what lies ahead.
Ik kan niet bedenken wat voor ons ligt.
The way I see it, as you already know, it is a matter of opinion.
Zoals ik het zie (en je al weet), is het een meningskwestie.
Right or wrong, time will tell.
Goed of fout, de tijd zal het uitwijzen.
In principle, it is true. However, it is not necessarily so.
Het is in principe waar, maar niet per se.
What I am talking about is where we are going from here.
Waar ik het over heb is waar we vanaf hier naartoe gaan.
While I am talking about it, lets not relive the past.
Terwijl ik het erover heb, laten we het verleden niet herleven.
And what's more, living in caves left much to be desired.
En wat dies meer zij, in grotten leven laat veel te wensen over.
My better half said recently that, on one hand, I live like a caveman, but on the other
hand, I speak like an alien.
Mijn partner zei laatst dat ik enerzijds leef als een holbewoner, maar anderszijds, dat
ik spreek als een alien.
Oh, I nearly forgot.
Oh, ik was het even vergeten.
She is into science fiction.
Ze houdt van science-fiction.
Not that that is all bad.
Niet dat dat erg is.
And besides, it remains to be seen if it proves to be a good glimpse at the future.
En trouwens, het blijft maar de vraag of het een goed beeld van de toekomst geeft.
Time will tell.
De tijd zal het uitwijzen.
In fact, it is just a question of time.
In feite is het sowieso een kwestie van tijd.
But my time is up.
Maar mijn tijd is op.
What do you think?
Wat denk je zelf?
Now that it occurs to me, do you think that all hell will break loose?
Nu dat het bij me opkomt, denk je dat de hel los zal breken?
I certainly hope not.
Ik hoop van niet.
Not yet anyway.
Nog niet, tenminste.
But that's a story for another time.
Maar da's een verhaal voor een andere keer.
It sounds like I am finished. So much the better.
Ik denk dat ik klaar ben, wat ook beter is.
Thank you for your patience.
Dank je voor je geduld.
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Someone translate this into German, please.
Edited by carlonove on 23 April 2012 at 6:31am
1 person has voted this message useful
| druckfehler
Triglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 4867 days ago
1181 posts - 1912 votes
Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean
Studies: Persian
| Message 52 of 83 24 April 2012 at 1:50am | IP Logged |
I can translate it, but I'm not sure this actually works very well, because depending on context some of the used connectors have different translations in German or there are slight grammatical changes depending on the context. How did other translators deal with these things?
I'll give you a couple of examples:
"Once upon a time" is usually translated as "Es war einmal", which is the standard formula in fairytales. This is followed by a noun in singular. If it is followed by two nouns, as in "Once upon a time, there lived a king and a queen", it becomes "Es waren einmal". With people, however, it doesn't quite work. A less strained translation in this case is "es ereignete sich einmal, dass". When used casually it could require the same translation as "long ago", namely "vor langer Zeit". So which of these would you want to learn?
In many other cases there is more than one way to translate the connectors used in the English text. The most straight-forward translation of "in the beginning" is uundoubtedly "am Anfang", but you could just as well use "anfänglich" or "zu Beginn".
Word order can also change, depending on the other parts of the sentence. "Without question that is an exaggeration" translates to "Ohne Frage ist dies eine Übertreibung", but if you only wanted to use "that is an exaggeration" you would have so say "dies ist eine Übertreibung". The position in the sentence can also depend on the presence or absence of other parts of the sentence.
What if the position in the sentence is different in German? Would you want it to be strictly parallel to the English (sounding clumsy or worse) or at the position it would naturally take in the German sentence?
The sentences I used as examples and their German translation:
Once upon a time, long ago, people developed languages.
Es ereignete sich einmal, vor langer Zeit, dass die Menschen Sprachen entwickelten.
Understandably, in the beginning, speech was simple but nonetheless essential.
Verständlicherweise war die Sprache am Anfang einfach, aber dennoch unentbehrlich.
Without question, that is an exaggeration because, in no case is it one hundred percent
true.
Ohne Frage ist dies eine Übertreibung, denn in keinem Fall ist es zu hundert Prozent wahr.
Edited by druckfehler on 24 April 2012 at 1:56am
1 person has voted this message useful
| tommus
Senior Member
CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5865 days ago
979 posts - 1688 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish
| Message 53 of 83 24 April 2012 at 3:06am | IP Logged |
I don't know what carlonove would prefer. My intent with the original English version and the requested Dutch translation was to get an approximate equivalent but definitely in correct everyday language, so definitely not a forced literal translation. It should be like a native would express these concepts. They don't have to be exactly parallel, but the more parallel, the better.
My motivation was to learn the Dutch expressions for these connectors as the Dutch would say them.
I now have the text and the English and Dutch (thanks to tarvos) audio on my 'Dutch Islands' website.
Dutch Islands connectors
1 person has voted this message useful
| Norvasc
Newbie
Canada
Joined 6488 days ago
30 posts - 31 votes
Studies: French
| Message 54 of 83 24 April 2012 at 3:34am | IP Logged |
I was watching a introduction video on Moses's FLR course and was considering buying it.
Does anyone know how long his Level 1 and Level 2 are in terms of time?
1 person has voted this message useful
| ungoo
Bilingual Pentaglot
Senior Member
Taiwan
Joined 5463 days ago
22 posts - 25 votes
Speaks: English, Mandarin*, Taiwanese*, Cantonese, French
Studies: German
| Message 55 of 83 24 April 2012 at 8:45am | IP Logged |
While not 1,000 times of repeat listening, this site www.francaisauthentique.com advocates the idea of repeat listening of same passages (30 times or so). Johan (site owner) claims that this is the key to understand a language without translating them in your head, and to speak automatically without thinking.
Johan explains his approach and methodology quite well in the video, citing his own experiences in learning English and German. Really interesting stuff, the free 7 rules of learning is worth reading.
Edited by ungoo on 24 April 2012 at 10:40am
2 persons have voted this message useful
| tmp011007
Diglot
Senior Member
Congo
Joined 6068 days ago
199 posts - 346 votes
Speaks: Spanish*, English
Studies: French, Portuguese
| Message 56 of 83 25 April 2012 at 1:32am | IP Logged |
ungoo wrote:
While not 1,000 times of repeat listening, this site www.francaisauthentique.com advocates the idea of repeat listening of same passages (30 times or so). Johan (site owner) claims that this is the key to understand a language without translating them in your head, and to speak automatically without thinking.
Johan explains his approach and methodology quite well in the video, citing his own experiences in learning English and German. Really interesting stuff, the free 7 rules of learning is worth reading.
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http://www.effortlessenglishpage.com/p/7-rules.html
are they by any chance the same?
1 person has voted this message useful
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