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Chinese vs Indonesian: price/value ratio | ||
Tags: Indonesian | Mandarin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| aokoye Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5541 days ago 235 posts - 453 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, Norwegian, Japanese | Message 9 of 18 12 January 2014 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with this sentiment. Unless you really have a love of a particular language and have decided that you want to teach it, be an interpreter, or be a translator it doesn't make much sense to chose a language based off of job prospects. The exception to this rule could be a. English if you aren't a native English speaker, it being the lingua franca and such or b. if you live in a country where the official or de facto official language isn't one that you speak. That said it doesn't look like you are in either of those situations. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3988 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 10 of 18 12 January 2014 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The thing is I just don't feel like going back to formal university education, neither want to spend a lot of money on tuition fees, and I have no idea what to study either. I have a degree in political science and just don't see what difference would it make having an MA in some related field.
I value my independence a lot, that's why I've always preferred to run my own business or even if employed at least work on my own. Learning a language is an activity I enjoy and can do it on my own. I was thinking about finding a short training course to become a Spanish teacher, and this is still an option, although I feel that natives would always be preferred over me. I do believe that if I added another language to English and Spanish, especially if this new language is a difficult or at least a rare one, then I could find a relatively well paid job in Tourism. I would enjoy a more or less independent job like a tour guide for example. And to tell Chinese or Japanese tourists that "this castle was built by X king, and you can buy post cards in that street" you don't have to speak the language flawlessly. Edited by Hungringo on 12 January 2014 at 7:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3997 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 11 of 18 12 January 2014 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
The focus on tuition is valid, but you really have to measure your opportunity cost of getting degree X. If you are currently earning, say, 40,000 euros a year and want to do a two year program that costs a total of 20,000 to eventually get a job earning 60,000 it will take a while to recuperate. Opportunity cost of not working two years: 80,000 euros GROSS. Tuition: 20,000 NET (plus any interest) Future income: 60,000 euros GROSS. Very quick calculation: 100,000/20,000=5 years of working at your 60,000 euro job to make it worth it. HOWEVER, this doesn't take into account the 3% average of inflation, the possibility that you would have gotten a raise with your 40,000 job, your increased tax burden with 60,000/yr, increased job stability with 60,000 job, taxes, or any associated loan interest accrual. Also, if you are heavily invested in stocks the opportunity cost of paying the tuition money will be very high, around 10.5%. (The S and P 500's yield over the last 100 years is about 10.5% every year even with the great depression and all the recessions included. Long-term investing in stocks is extremely prudent while older folks should always adjust their allocation ratio more towards bonds and less volatile investment vehicles as they get closer to retirement. And the number 1 rule of investing: never invest money you can't lose!) Of course, you would have to calculate the net present value (NPV) and choose an appropriate discount rate of something like 6% to really calculate your payback period. That was just a very quick example. Correct me if I'm wrong somebody but working in tourism doesn't usually pay well and I wouldn't imagine that it is very stable work. For example, you can sell stuff in Times Square and speak five languages but you won't be making very much money. Conversely, you can get a job in something like accounting which is stable (in the US at least) and just knowing one language is fine. Do you like law? Or how about a masters? In the US you can teach university classes with a masters degree. I've read some financial analyses showing that the only PhD degree that is economically worth it over a masters is actually economics. A lot of economics PhDs at my US university are raking in 200,000+ gross! A lot more than the other PhDs. Edit: I think you really should just focus on what you can do to either get a very stable job or create a business if you are an entrepreneur. What can you offer the market? What job niches are available? The language thing is more of just a hobby as I see it. As you already know there isn't easy money out there and usually, just like in investing, the more reward something has usually the more risky it is. Edited by culebrilla on 12 January 2014 at 9:59pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| cwcowellshah Newbie United States Joined 4379 days ago 34 posts - 52 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish | Message 12 of 18 12 January 2014 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm an American who spent 4 years in Indonesia as a kid. My sense is that Indonesian is
probably tied with Afrikaans as the easiest major language (i.e., excluding niche languages like Frisian) for English-speakers to reach A2 in. (No, that claim is not backed up with very much evidence -- it's largely a gut feel.) I didn't progress beyond A2 during my time there, but I heard from other ex-pats that the learning curve steepens sharply past A2, but I think the overall time required to each, say, B2 would be way, waaaay shorter than the equivalent in Mandarin. I can't say anything intelligent about job prospects. I can say that Indonesia is unbelievably rich in culture and has countless wonderful travel opportunities. Plus, a little Bahasa Indonesia goes an awfully long way when you're a tourist. The country is kind of an undiscovered (by Americans, at least) tourist gem. Not sure if any of that is at all relevant to the original question. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4444 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 13 of 18 13 January 2014 at 5:55am | IP Logged | |||||
When you talk about opportunities, you have 2 types: business with yourself or a group of people as owners, managers and executives and employment with you working for someone else. I know more about China than Indonesia so I'll talk about China. Recently I was watching videos made by a White S. African man on YouTube who goes by the name "Serpentza" who now lives and works in China. If you want to operate a business in China, it is much easier and better to be fluent in Mandarin because you almost never trust the locals not to commit fraud behind your back. Otherwise there is room for you to grow depending on the business you get into. If you are into manufacturing, there is a good chance for knockoffs. If you are a professional planning to find work in China it is extremely difficult. First they have a large population that are trained every year out of local universities. Many of these with top academic credentials even have a hard time finding work. The chances of the Chinese giving work to a foreigner is not very high unless you can do a better job than the Chinese. In the first few years don't be surprised the only type of work you can find are for English teachers. Even when there are lots of local English teachers, most of them have not lived abroad and have enough exposure to the language so this is 1 area where there will always be a need. Otherwise you can still be a business consultant getting involve with import and export between China and the West. When you are talking about computer technicians, accountants, engineers the Chinese prefer to hire their own people. China, How it is - Jobs for foreigners Edited by shk00design on 13 January 2014 at 5:59am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| freakyaye Senior Member Australia Joined 4838 days ago 107 posts - 152 votes | Message 14 of 18 16 January 2014 at 12:53am | IP Logged | |||||
This thread is crazy. This is a difference in philosophy. To try and attempt to quantify the gains of learning a 2nd language in financial terms is crazy. The whole idea of another language is the experiences they provide, of the thrill of breaking through a barrier and the romanticism of succeeding at things others wouldn't even try. I wager most people who are fluent in a second language do not see any recognizable pay bump. Only a few areas actually pay a chunk more for working within a L2. And for me, now that I'm working full time I always apply my hourly rate to activities I do. Cleaning the house? $55. Watching DVDs? $75. Who pays for my study time? My dreams do! Edited by freakyaye on 16 January 2014 at 12:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3997 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 15 of 18 16 January 2014 at 2:19am | IP Logged | |||||
No, I was responding directly to his question about tuition and future earning potential. I agree, most languages don't confer an economic benefit. My second language is practiced for personal growth, travel opportunities, to delay dementia onset, and to give a second language to my future children. Any economic benefit will be very, very modest and the benefits vastly out of proportion (in a negative sense) to what I've put in. But if you don't have a stable job or business, you better watch your time and you better look for a way to earn money. Or you can go on welfare; depends on what you want. Everything we do has an opportunity cost, not just in terms of money. If I decide to watch tv for an hour, my opportunity cost is what I could have made at my job, whether it is 10, 20, 100, or 1,000 dollars. It is ALSO an hour of exercise, chatting with somebody in another language, or even something like gardening. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| freakyaye Senior Member Australia Joined 4838 days ago 107 posts - 152 votes | Message 16 of 18 16 January 2014 at 3:25am | IP Logged | |||||
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culebrilla, sorry I wasn't referring to your answer itself, I realise the entire thread
is about this topic :-) I meant in general, abandon all hope when counting on languages for $$. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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