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When do you "speak" a language? | ||
Tags: Speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3909 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 1 of 28 06 August 2014 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I apologize if this has been discussed already. It seems like it would have been (nothing came up on search). I was thinking about this recently:
Learning is clearly an ongoing process that never ends, but when does one actually "speak" a language (or more clearly asked, when do you think someone is able to say "I speak <language>")? Keep in mind, when I say "speak" I don't necessarily mean only to speak, but more generally to know the language. Is it when you are able to hold a simple conversation? Is it when you are at a point where you can watch a movie and understand it with no problem? Is it when you know a few basic phrases? Form your own thoughts/sentences, even though your vocabulary is limited? This is more of a subjective question but I thought it would be interesting to see what other fellow linguaphiles have to say. Discuss. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 28 06 August 2014 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I can automatically produce coherent speech in the language and have it be
understood, and can understand the majority of coherent speech aimed at me. Automatically is the keyword. I understand almost all French aimed at me, and can respond normally, so I speak French. I don't understand all the Greek directed at me, and I can't respond automatically so I don't speak Greek. Edited by tarvos on 06 August 2014 at 10:52pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4146 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 3 of 28 06 August 2014 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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I moved Spanish to "speaks" when I felt that I would be able to live in the language. So - although by no means is
my Spanish comparable to my French or English - when I felt that I would be able to move to a Spanish-speaking country and conduct my life in Spanish (including serious conversations - not just basic requests), then I decided that I can speak Spanish. For me, I'd say that's equivalent to a B2 level (although I've never taken any tests). Edited by Stelle on 06 August 2014 at 11:15pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4101 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 4 of 28 06 August 2014 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would probably say that I speak a language once I do just that and find that I get by. It is much less a precise definition and much more a feeling of self-sufficiency, especially since "speak" can easily be qualified with anything from "a little" to "perfectly".
To me, an imprecise word like "speak" has much less to do with objective proficiency than with comfort. If you say "I speak French", I don't demand that you to speak it well, but I would expect you to be willing to speak French with me and rely only on that language in our conversation. This doesn't take into account those who happily speak only two sentences of a language, but lack the insight to realise that they are enervating rather than self-reliant when they insist on stretching conversation far beyond their skills. I know that, but I honestly can't be bothered creating a definition that takes any and every eventuality into account. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| holly heels Groupie United States Joined 3888 days ago 47 posts - 107 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 5 of 28 06 August 2014 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have been conversing in Mandarin every day for 4 years and understand quite a bit of it, sometimes all of it, but I am still much more comfortable telling others that I'm "studying" it rather than "speaking" it, and I am actively studying it, so it's not a lie.
Better to leave a little vagueness in there. People won't like me any more or less based on how well I speak Mandarin. Maybe it's a self-esteem thing, and it may apply to others, because I have met people who are not native English speakers who tell me they can't really speak English but actually speak it well enough, but are probably self-conscious about their accent. So for me it's about level of confidence and how I perceive my ability. If I go around all the time presenting myself as a person who speaks Chinese, one day I might have to eat my words. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5534 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 28 07 August 2014 at 12:15am | IP Logged | ||
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There are many possible thresholds for "speaks", ranging from:
- "I could travel using only this language, and somehow deal with most sorts of normal situations, and have interesting one-on-one conversations with patient natives." …to: - "When I learn a language, I want to know it so well that I would be perfectly OK if it were the only language I knew." (Khatzumoto) The former corresponds to a CEFR B1 level, and it can be obtained at a pretty reasonable price: a few hundred hours of focused attention and work, assuming you already know a related language. The latter is somewhere beyond CEFR C2, and most of the people who achieve it do so by living and working in a language for many years. (And even then, most adults will never completely lose their accents, and many adults will always make a few grammar mistakes.) For more information about CERF levels, see this self-evaluation checklist. This should give you an idea of which skills are easy to learn, and which will take more work. Edited by emk on 07 August 2014 at 12:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4101 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 7 of 28 07 August 2014 at 12:21am | IP Logged | ||
I think that's something you mostly come across in English (and/or major world languages widely spoken in the place in question). If you speak English as a second language, you are constantly surrounded by examples of people who speak the language incredibly well. By comparison, you may speak the language quite poorly. You are also likely, especially if you spend any time at all online, to come into quite a fair bit of contact with elitist notions about English, and the assumption that everyone should speak/write it perfectly. Native Anglophones and ESL-speakers alike do a fair bit of bullying of people with poor spelling and grammar, or foreign idiosyncrasies. Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever heard anyone, however modest, claim that they don't speak Swedish unless they really do not know much more than how to order coffee. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4670 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 8 of 28 07 August 2014 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||
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You speak a language, when native speakers tell you you do. ;)
1 person has voted this message useful |
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