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When do you "speak" a language? | ||
Tags: Speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5102 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 17 of 28 08 August 2014 at 2:10am | IP Logged | ||
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I "speak" French when I'm in a job interview.
Conversely, if I'm engrossed in a foreign language book and someone interrupts me to ask "do you speak...?" Then the answer is no, so that I can get back to my book. Unless I suspect that they speak my TL. Edited by Darklight1216 on 08 August 2014 at 2:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 28 08 August 2014 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||
I have defined my treshold for 'speaking a language' as being able to do a monolingual trip to a suitable place and basically having the same kind of discussions as I would have if I spoke for instance English with the local population. This is not just a question of asking where the toilet is or asking people to write the price of something down on a piece of paper. It would at least include the capability to discuss car trouble, missing items in your hotel room, the exhibits of museums or animals in zoos, the weather situation and things like that. It also includes being able to read the local newspaper, local TV programs and the guides who conduct guided tours at local sights in the local language. It should even include the ability to deal with moderate dialectal variations (like Quebecquois French at the Acadian Village in New Brunswick or Scots as spoken at Stirling castle), but not necessarily the most extreme variants. For instance I simply don't understand spoken Aromanian, and I have big problems with even the written version. And I have furthermore to concede that it might be beyond me to understand the tax laws of my holiday destination or eavesdrop on local youngsters in a restaurant. We all have our limits, and I guess that even local people might have problems with certain variants of their own language. Otherwise mainstream German TV wouldn't dub (and thereby utterly spoiling) a program spoken in Swiss German, just to take a recent example. Edited by Iversen on 08 August 2014 at 5:02pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kaibri Triglot Newbie China Joined 4815 days ago 12 posts - 17 votes Speaks: English*, German, Mandarin Studies: Indonesian, Portuguese | Message 19 of 28 11 August 2014 at 5:27am | IP Logged | ||
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I figure that I speak a language if I would give a foreign speaker credit for "speaking" English at the same ability
level. I think we have a natural feel for whether someone speaks our native language but it can be harder to judge how we measure up in other languages. I'm much more forgiving in English - if someone can carry on conversation with me in a variety of topics I think they speak English, even if there is some confusion or I have to repeat myself, etc. But when someone asks me if I speak German or Mandarin I feel like a fraud saying yes, even though I am B2/C1-ish in both, because I still have plenty of struggles in both languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5061 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 20 of 28 12 August 2014 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here's my test for whether you "speak a language:"
Suppose you told a native speaker, "I speak [your language]." They say, "Oh, really?" They switch to that language. "How did you learn it?" The conversation switches to another topic, then another, over the course of five or ten minutes. If, in this situation, you are not afraid of being revealed as a fraud or braggart, and they are impressed at the end, then you "speak that language," even if you make some errors and have to ask for help a time or two. At the end of the day though, this "speak" is just one level among "study," "speak a little," "speak fluently," "understand," "speak perfectly," or if you prefer, the standardized systems like CEFR (for which my speak test corresponds to about B1-B2 or better) *note, it has to be for five or more minutes. Otherwise, you can impress people with a decent accent and a quick semi-memorized explanation of how you "learned" the language. Edited by robarb on 12 August 2014 at 9:40pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5238 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 21 of 28 12 August 2014 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Personally I think you speak the language if you can sit in a room with 3+ natives and carry on a conversation, and understand what they are saying to each other. Even if your sentences aren't perfect, and you are only just grasping what they are saying to each other.
:) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Duke100782 Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Philippines https://talktagalog.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4490 days ago 172 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 22 of 28 18 August 2014 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | ||
Strangely, I feel my Mandarin improves after a couple of drinks. Perhaps if I drank a whole bottle of whiskey my Mandarin would really become fluent for that evening. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lorren Senior Member United States brookelorren.com/blo Joined 4253 days ago 286 posts - 324 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Danish, Irish Studies: Russian | Message 23 of 28 20 August 2014 at 9:38am | IP Logged | ||
I'm not sure if I'm fluent in English, by that definition... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 28 21 August 2014 at 2:39am | IP Logged | ||
I don't think I would say "I speak [your language]." If I felt I could survive a conversation I would just start speaking (or keep answering) in it, and then the other person might ask how I learnt it. Or not. On the other hand I might downplay my ability to speak a shaky language to avoid an agonizing conversation, but keep translating into the language in my head while we communicate in English or some other language. It is good training and doesn't put me in awkward situations. However If I'm directly asked to define my level in the language I would answer truthfully because those who pose that question mostly are genuinely intent on listening to a foreigner and willing to bear with imperfections. And if I have stated that I speak their language like a speech impeded Spanish donkey then they can't really blame me for speaking like a speech impeded Spanish donkey. Edited by Iversen on 21 August 2014 at 3:04am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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