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My personal language deterioration update | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4951 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 9 13 September 2014 at 1:15am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This maybe one of the most unusual threads, since 99.9% are about qualifying progress in a language, not qualifying worsening!!! But I just wanted to share my experience, and also welcome any opinions or a comparison from other people that have (willingly or not) been forced away from a language they had previously studied to a fairly high level.
So, for those that don't know, I have been studying Chinese since May, full time. The first part of this period I reviewed basic grammar, vocab, and expressions. The 2nd part (last two months plus), I have been learning characters so I can begin reading. During this period of inactivity I barely touched my prior learned languages: French, German, and Portuguese. The last time I did significant activities with them was April. I have attended an occasional conversational meeting (almost all before July), and very on and off read an article or two online, but I can honestly say I have logged less than 48 hours combined on all three languages and all activities in them since May 1st. This is what I have noticed: In the first month (May) I noticed no regression, and the languages were fresh in my mind. In the second month (June), the languages where not as "vivid" but when I had to activate them I saw no real deterioration. In July, when I attended a couple of meetings, I noticed that while I could converse, my pronunciation seemed more effortful, and things did not come as easy, but I could still engage natives. I did nothing after that and in all of August and so far in September. That is 4 1/2 months. For completely random reasons, I have been "forced" into using all three languages in the last week: Portuguese and German to send e-mails to friends who contacted me, and French during a wine tasting (how cliché!) I have noticed a MARKED deterioration now. I can still communicate, but I now forget basic words: I had forgotten how to say "statt" in German, or the most basic synonym for "kriegen" (bekommen). Pronunciation is worse, and reading involves more of my attention now. In Portuguese, my pronunciation is really downhill, worse than the other two, and since I never practiced this language nearly like the other two, my speaking skills are quite rusty. In French, I'm messing up the subjunctive big time, and again, basic words like "assiette" escaped me. The interesting thing is that my listening has pretty much remained just as good, or at least it appears to me so. But writing has also become more difficult, obviously speaking, and reading while still fairly easy requires a small but noticeable effort. Does this all sound normal for a nearly 5 month hiatus? I know this is difficult to asess, but I just throw it out there to see if anyone has similar situations to share. If you have, how long did it take you to get back (or perceive) to get back to the original best level? I am planning in October to bring them back, I'm thinking that with a month for each language I can do that. More generally, for someone who learned a language to a high B2 level, even threshold C1, what is the best way to review efficiently to return to good form as fast as possible? Thanks for your time! Edited by outcast on 13 September 2014 at 1:23am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4446 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 2 of 9 13 September 2014 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You are not alone.
To cut the details short, some people including myself with family members who are sick or have medical issues. You basically get into a language course. Somewhere along the line, you are forced to take time off because you need to take someone to all sorts of appointments. Even if you manage to find an hour in between to get back to language learning, you ended up repeating the last lesson because you have't learned it well. In between you get interrupted so many times that you can't find enough time to yourself to start a lesson. Even if you wanted to, you can't always be wearing headphones to listen to audio recordings of a language when you want to. During the day you have responsibilities to take care off. At the end of the day you feel too tired to start anything. Gets really frustrating but you just have to take care of what you feel is more important first. Edited by shk00design on 13 September 2014 at 5:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arnaud25 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 3844 days ago 129 posts - 235 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Russian | Message 3 of 9 14 September 2014 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well, I have the same experience with English.
From a good C1, where I could freely write and speak without effort (I was in automatic mode, so to say) I've slowly but surely returned to a B1+ level of production where I constantly search for basic words and basic grammatical structures. Simply because I haven't time and motivation to maintain it, and because I don't need English in my daily routine. My good level was coming from reading books in English everyday in the metro, but now I've stopped reading English litterature (I just read articles or watch YouTube videos on the internet: it's really not the same quality of language) because I try to read russian litterature in russian. So now, it's really bothering me because I've completly lost the fluidity of expression I had, but I can still read complex texts in English (partly because complex texts in English use a lot of words with a latin or french origin, in fact). I've bought a grammar book a few months ago with the idea of revising all the basics, but I haven't opened it yet... 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5310 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 4 of 9 14 September 2014 at 11:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Can't say, but I've stopped for 1 year, and deteriorated more or less like you did.
Days.
Can't say what's best for everyone, but what's best for me were: - listening to the radio (faster than I could read, and handsfree, yay!) - doing flashcards (even doing only some of them would magically bring back the rest of them, eg. at first, could only answer 10%, then after struggling for an hour, suddenly could answer 90% or whatever close to the previous ability) I used to revive my French by reading grammar books, but dreaded it, and either refused to start or gave up very soon. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 5 of 9 15 September 2014 at 11:06am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Interesting subject; I think many of us have abandoned languages or at least stopped actively studying them so I'm wondering what people's experiences are. In fact I mentioned it on my log a few days ago.
I stopped actively studying French around 4 months ago, but hoping to maintain my level or at least not lose it entirely. I was high B2, on the way to C1. I've been going to a French-speaking meetup once a month or so since then, and watching a French film or some TV every week or two. The main deterioration I've noticed has been my ability to speak "cold": for example I bumped into a French guy I know a few months ago and he started speaking to me in French. I struggled to find words and my pronunciation was messy. I had spent the previous hour with Italian friends so I was still thinking in Italian at that point, plus I was tired; those are additional variables that make it hard to put down to just lack of practice. I've also noticed at the meetups that my warm-up time is longer than it used to be: I feel like I can reach something near my previous level, but only after perhaps 15-30 minutes of conversation, and during that warm-up period I again have some difficulty finding words, I get a bit of interference from other languages, and my pronunciation is sloppy. And even once I reach that peak, some more rare/complicated words can feel out of reach. I have found that getting a decent amount of input during the days and hours before a meetup reduces the warm-up period and sets my "peak" level a bit higher. From my experience so far, I'd say that regular exposure plus some practice every so often seems to be sufficient to mostly maintain my level. And I reckon that if I wanted to start actively learning it again, I could get back to my previous level in a few weeks of active study, although that's just speculation. EDIT: I forgot to include another important detail: I still do almost-daily French reviews on Anki. I'm sure that's also contributing to keeping it alive! Edited by garyb on 15 September 2014 at 12:49pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4830 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 6 of 9 15 September 2014 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Outcast: By the sound of it, your active skills have become somewhat rusty, but
maybe not your passive skills, or not to the same extent. I believe this is fairly normal, and from all I've heard and read, once you were back in a situation where you could practice the active skills more regularly, it would gradually come back (and maybe not so gradually either). So, nil desperandum! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4446 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 7 of 9 16 September 2014 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If you stop using a language for a while, your skills is going to go down. A language like Chinese or
Japanese, the ability to recognize characters tend to be more a problem than the spoken language. The pop group Abba from Sweden were not only singing sensations, but the 4 singers could speak several European languages to a high level including English, French, German & Spanish. After the break- up of the band around 1980, Benny Anderson & Björn Ulvaeus continued to write musicals in Swedish & English. After her divorce to Björn and leaving Abba behind, she went into seclusion for a while and in her later years her English isn't as fluent as before although still very understandable. We all get into personal issues where we cannot spend the time to study. We have to decide on take language learning outside the classroom or learning materials. We can listen to songs which is a good way to keep your fluency up especially when you find a few catchy tunes. On our way to work, we can listen to radio programs or listen to songs in a different language. Even when we don't pick up everything, we can maintain a language at a certain level. Listening to pop tunes and songs with catchy tunes is a good way because the words are repetitive. Recently I came across a boys band from China "TFBoys" on YouTube and started watching their videos. The videos include not only their songs but their private lives at home, their photo sessions. If you are not yet comfortable with listening to Chinese dialog, you just listen to their songs a few times. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4891 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 8 of 9 19 September 2014 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I haven't found a way to measure deterioration, but it is definitely there! I used to
think that languages would magically return after a bit of exposure - but I was wrong. I think how long you spoke the language is as important as what level you've reached. I've learned both Indonesian and Spanish to roughly a lower B-1 level. Spanish was with courses and short trips to Central America. Indonesian was with seven chapters of "Learn Bahasa" and then six months overseas. I haven't used Spanish in a year. It would take me a month or so of solid work to reactivate it. I haven't used Indonesian in ten years - and yet when I skim an Indonesian course it seems to come back fast. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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