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Slavic philology ... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| ElfoEscuro Diglot Senior Member United States cyworld.com/brahmapu Joined 6289 days ago 408 posts - 423 votes  Speaks: Portuguese, English* Studies: Japanese | Message 25 of 36 01 July 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I figured that was common knowledge. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| peterlin Tetraglot Groupie Poland peterlin.jzn.pl Joined 6415 days ago 54 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Polish*, Persian, English, Russian | Message 26 of 36 02 July 2008 at 1:30am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You figured that what was common knowledge? Czech's influence on Polish language and orthography? I haven't run a survey, but my gut feeling is that most people over here are unaware of it (esp. with regard to orthography). Latin, German, French - sure, but Czech? Why would we need to get anything from the Pepiks? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| ElfoEscuro Diglot Senior Member United States cyworld.com/brahmapu Joined 6289 days ago 408 posts - 423 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English* Studies: Japanese | Message 27 of 36 02 July 2008 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Since this topic is labeled "Slavic Philology" I am assuming that the people participating in the topic are aware of the various influences the Slavic languages have had on each other. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| peterlin Tetraglot Groupie Poland peterlin.jzn.pl Joined 6415 days ago 54 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Polish*, Persian, English, Russian | Message 28 of 36 03 July 2008 at 9:10am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'm quite puzzled by this exchange. Did you feel offended/attacked by what I wrote? I only wanted to add my two cents to the topic (and maybe I deviated from it a bit), and merely observed that you omitted Czech and Russian (and my note in brackets was to the effect that probably you had your reasons). Then you're going "Meh, I didn't want to say the obvious", which strikes me as defensive. So I inquire then about what's so obvious and then you say that because of the thread's title you expect from everyone participating high levels of knowledge in the field of intra-Slavic linguistic influences. I don't think that's a realistic expectation, and I don't think that the contents of the previous postings warrant it. Moreover, what's obvious for someone with L2 knowledge of a (some) Slavic language(s) and solid philology background is sometimes not obvious for a native speaker with only a couple of poorly remembered high school grammar lessons. And vice-versa. Edited by peterlin on 03 July 2008 at 9:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| ElfoEscuro Diglot Senior Member United States cyworld.com/brahmapu Joined 6289 days ago 408 posts - 423 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English* Studies: Japanese | Message 29 of 36 03 July 2008 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Well, whatever. Maybe you are right.
But, I wonder why you used the word "Pepik". Is that not meant to be derrogatory? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| peterlin Tetraglot Groupie Poland peterlin.jzn.pl Joined 6415 days ago 54 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Polish*, Persian, English, Russian | Message 30 of 36 04 July 2008 at 2:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Yeah, whatever.
I used that word (in retrospect, "Szwejki" would be a better choice) because I wanted to succintly describe our attitude to our southern neighbours. Over here, we tend not to treat them seriously and don't know much about them and their culture (apart from that their beer is very cheap and very good and their language sounds childish and funny). That's why the fact that Czech has strongly influenced Polish in its early days is not widely known in Poland. Out of the Slavic languages (& culture), only Russian is somewhat known in Poland (but to a lesser extent than English, German or French - we look west). Ukraine has had its good days a couple of years ago, but other than that... We are really very parochial. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 36 04 July 2008 at 4:18am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Leaving aside the relationships between Poles and Czechs.. I have just returned from a trip through the Southern part of the Balkan Peninsula, from Varna and a few other places in Bulgaria through Niš in Serbia, Skopje in Macedonia, Podgorica and Herceg-Novi in Montenegro and from there along the Dalmatian coast to Split and Trogir in Croatia. And it struck me just how close the Slavic languages are. When I visited Belarus earlier this year I expected Belarusian to be very similar to Russian, and yes, it was. But I had not expected that my limited knowledge of Russian would be as useful in Bulgaria as it was - in fact I almost immediately decided to try out my Russian in every situation except when speaking to someone with an excellent knowledge of another foreign langage (such as the employee at the tourist information in Sofia who spoke fluent Spanish). Sometimes I even understood the answers! My stay in Niš was very brief, but even here Russian could be used as a key to understanding the local Serbian language. Later, along the Adriatic coast, I also used Russian as a key to understand written texts, but mostly I spoke English (or German) with the local people. Nevertheless I noticed a heavy Russian presence even here and especially in Montenegro, - maybe half the signs with apartments and investments in houses were written in Russian, which apparently is a quite recent development. My landlord in Herceg-Novi in fact told me that she had started to learn Russian because of all the Russian tourists.
I have the general impression that in any case where Serbian and Croatian have different words for a certain thing the Serbians go with Russian and the Croatian words has come from some other source which isn't always evident. Bulgarian generally share its vocabulary with Russian outside a group of very common words. I know that there are some minor grammatical differences (such as the Bulgarian postclitic article), but judged from the small Bulgarian grammar I bought in Sofia and my old 'Serbo-Croatian' language guide it's all more or less variations on themes that I already know from Russian or from other languages in the area, such as Romanian and Greek. After this tour I am even more eager to take one some Slavic languages after Russian - the similarities between the languages are apparently even greater in this group than between the Romance languages, and it would be silly to focus on just one of them. Btw. I couldn't resist buying an Albanian-English dictionary in Kosova while I was there, but that project lies far ahead in the future - I bought it mostly as a souvenir. Wanderlust go away. Edited by Iversen on 04 July 2008 at 4:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 32 of 36 04 July 2008 at 5:39am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Russian and Bulgarian grammar are quite distinct, it's definitely not just a bunch of variations on the same topic. On the other hand, I agree about the similarities in vocabulary, they are plentiful and easy to recognize. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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