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Being forced to learn a minority language

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nway
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 Message 25 of 42
01 June 2011 at 8:48pm | IP Logged 
^ http://www.lituanus.org/1996/96_2_05.htm
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Volte
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 Message 26 of 42
01 June 2011 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
kyssäkaali wrote:
Being forced to learn a language in this way though (in school) creates resentment for the language in question and achieves the opposite of what it was going for.

It's a school subject. That's all it is, a school subject. If people are resentful because a language is taught to them in school, they likely would have been resentful without it as well.


Not necessarily. A lot of people seem to become resentful of anything taught badly enough - as languages often are in many school systems.

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Arekkusu
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 Message 27 of 42
02 June 2011 at 4:05pm | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:
Arekkusu wrote:
kyssäkaali wrote:
Being forced to learn a language in this way though (in school) creates resentment for the language in question and achieves the opposite of what it was going for.

It's a school subject. That's all it is, a school subject. If people are resentful because a language is taught to them in school, they likely would have been resentful without it as well.


Not necessarily. A lot of people seem to become resentful of anything taught badly enough - as languages often are in many school systems.

Ok... so only those with bad teachers will become resentful?
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Volte
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 Message 28 of 42
02 June 2011 at 4:13pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
Volte wrote:
Arekkusu wrote:
kyssäkaali wrote:
Being forced to learn a language in this way though (in school) creates resentment for the language in question and achieves the opposite of what it was going for.

It's a school subject. That's all it is, a school subject. If people are resentful because a language is taught to them in school, they likely would have been resentful without it as well.


Not necessarily. A lot of people seem to become resentful of anything taught badly enough - as languages often are in many school systems.

Ok... so only those with bad teachers will become resentful?


That's not what I said. It's a cause, not the only potential cause.

I know French dropped sharply in popularity among my classmates at my elementary school in Canada if you compare before and after we had to start studying it.

Sure, there was other cultural resentment of French around - but bad teaching still caused a rather dramatic increase in resentment, including in people who had previously liked the idea of French. My father speaks French, and my family environment was fairly positive towards it, and I was excited about studying it. By the end of elementary school, I hated it - and language learning. It took nearly a decade in Switzerland for that to change.


Edited by Volte on 02 June 2011 at 4:14pm
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Arekkusu
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 Message 29 of 42
02 June 2011 at 4:23pm | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:
Arekkusu wrote:
Volte wrote:
Arekkusu wrote:
kyssäkaali wrote:
Being forced to learn a language in this way though (in school) creates resentment for the language in question and achieves the opposite of what it was going for.

It's a school subject. That's all it is, a school subject. If people are resentful because a language is taught to them in school, they likely would have been resentful without it as well.


Not necessarily. A lot of people seem to become resentful of anything taught badly enough - as languages often are in many school systems.

Ok... so only those with bad teachers will become resentful?


That's not what I said. It's a cause, not the only potential cause.

I know French dropped sharply in popularity among my classmates at my elementary school in Canada if you compare before and after we had to start studying it.

Sure, there was other cultural resentment of French around - but bad teaching still caused a rather dramatic increase in resentment, including in people who had previously liked the idea of French. My father speaks French, and my family environment was fairly positive towards it, and I was excited about studying it. By the end of elementary school, I hated it - and language learning. It took nearly a decade in Switzerland for that to change.

I doubt most of the resentment towards French in Canada comes from learning it in school. I live in Central Canada and it's not hard to find native French speakers resentful towards Québec as a whole, so the issue is quite complex. The situation in Komi might be reasonably similar. The area used to be almost entirely Komi, then it was invaded by Russian speakers who now regard Komi as inferior and useless and I presume many Komi speakers may themselves regard Russian as the prestige language.

Edited by Arekkusu on 02 June 2011 at 4:23pm
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Lianne
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 Message 30 of 42
02 June 2011 at 4:50pm | IP Logged 
I can see Volte's point. I live in Canada (Winnipeg, MB), and the only thing I've ever had against French was that junior high French class sucked so bad. In elementary school I loved it. I'm of French ancestry, so it was definitely encouraged, and when I was little I did great in French class. Then I got to junior high, and conjugating etre and avoir for 3 years straight just killed the language for me. I've only begun to get over this mental block towards French.

However, I don't think the solution to that is to stop making us take French. I don't even think it's always the teachers' fault. The class is just poorly designed.
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Chung
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 Message 31 of 42
02 June 2011 at 5:33pm | IP Logged 
What I find a little surprising in this discussion is the degree to which mandatory instruction in a foreign minority language is viewed positively - even when we acknowledge that there's tension or ambiguous perceptions toward the languages involved. It seems a little at odds with the idea often expressed here that one's language studies are most effective when led by interest.

I reiterate that the best solution would be to have instruction in the minority language as a choice among a few other foreign languages rather than as something mandated by bureaucratic pinheads despite the prospective learners' observations/experiences. Arekkusu is right in that many Komi hold Russian as the prestige language (whether they like this state of affairs or not is a separate matter) and so the imposition of instruction of the minority language on people not belonging to the minority seems wrong-headed if my experience with mandatory instruction of minority languages is any guide.

Carry on...
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Arekkusu
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 Message 32 of 42
02 June 2011 at 5:46pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
What I find a little surprising in this discussion is the degree to which mandatory instruction in a foreign minority language is viewed positively - even when we acknowledge that there's tension or ambiguous perceptions toward the languages involved. It seems a little at odds with the idea often expressed here that one's language studies are most effective when led by interest.

I reiterate that the best solution would be to have instruction in the minority language as a choice among a few other foreign languages rather than as something mandated by bureaucratic pinheads despite the prospective learners' observations/experiences. Arekkusu is right in that many Komi hold Russian as the prestige language (whether they like this state of affairs or not is a separate matter) and so the imposition of instruction of the minority language on people not belonging to the minority seems wrong-headed if my experience with mandatory instruction of minority languages is any guide.

Carry on...

We don't force-teach a second language because we think it works without any doubt. We do it because it's necessary for children to learn that there are other cultures around them, other ways to view the world.

It's essential that we try to understand the world we live in and if a minority group shares the same territory, we have a duty as human beings to try to understand their reality.

Ask the average person if they want to expose themselves to another culture and learn another language for the fun of it, and what percentage of people do you think would agree to that? So we try to teach the kids while we can.

Edited by Arekkusu on 02 June 2011 at 5:49pm


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