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Older Learner tries Assimil for Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes  Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 81 of 175 01 April 2012 at 7:16am | IP Logged |
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Gracias, Crush :) Mi español es demasiado lenta y a veces malo, pero voy a tratar de aprender.
I've been working with some online language exchange folks, and I've been amazed at how generous and understanding strangers have been. I really should have tried this sooner. Email matches my natural speed at Spanish :) Today was a day when I just couldn't get my agreement on gender to work in live conversation. At least I knew I was messing up. I'll do better tomorrow. I read about "Boris Shekhtman's language teaching/learning method called 'islands'", and I downloaded a couple of pdf's about it. It sounds like excellent advice for strategies that help an A1/A2 speaker to maximize his/her interaction with a native speaker. I actually can remember doing something like this on my own when learning Samoan. During my time as a Peace Corps volunteer, I set my self up to be a test subject for new FSI testers, so I did a lot of FSI tests. In a conversational test, there is a lot more to it than just raw grammar and vocabulary. One strategy I used was, "control the conversation," or "get talking about something I know how/want to talk about," or "I don't know much about outrigger canoes; but I do think that the Mt. Vaea club is a great place to go after a day of working on a canoe, or a day of teaching junior high school. During happy hour..." These strategies are similar to those used my US politicians (all politicians?) during debates or press conferences. Language testing interviews are a battlefield. If I can cram a chunk of fluent discourse into a language test, it is bound to make me look better, even with testers who know what I am doing. The same thing goes for conversations with native speakers. It is much less of a pain to deal with an A1/A2 speaker if he/she has something to say other than "I, uh, wants, no want, I want to know, I mean learn, I want to learns, I wants to learns the Spanish." I'm exaggerating, but having some fluent chunks of language memorized might keep you talking to a native speaker long enough that you might actually learn something from them. As far as I can tell, the only fundamental flaw with Assimil is that it aims straight at B1/B2 and doesn't include a lot of material that would help one move through A1/A2. I think I'm going to build myself some islands of fluent Spanish, to keep native speakers interested and talking and listening. I actually can use a lot of what I've been putting into emails. This isn't exactly learning Spanish, but it is learning to use Spanish... I battle on. steve Edited by sfuqua on 01 April 2012 at 7:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 82 of 175 01 April 2012 at 8:31am | IP Logged |
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Example of an island, perhaps a little over the top:
I really want to learn Spanish. There is a whole world that I don't know very much about. I live in a city named San Jose, California; I should know more Spanish than just how to tell time. Many of my students come from families where Spanish is spoken; I need to learn Spanish to show respect to them and their families if nothing else. I have lived in many countries other than the US, in Asia and the Pacific, and I don't really know why I have never been beyond Tijuana and Baja California in Mexico. What a lack! I have barely even touched Mexico. Beyond Mexico, there is a whole world I know little about down through Central and South America. Not even to mention the source of it all, Spain. What a glorious and complex place, with what an amazing history! I know I have a lot to learn, but with everything I learn, I become a little less ignorant. Please excuse my ignorant Spanish, but I learn a little more every day. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5020 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 83 of 175 01 April 2012 at 10:39am | IP Logged |
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I think this whole islands thing sounds like a really good idea. Do you think you could
please direct me to these pdfs? I'm in Spain for only a few more days but I could really do with something like this to convince people to talk to me for longer periods of time. Thanks 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 84 of 175 01 April 2012 at 5:59pm | IP Logged |
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There is a book called _How to Improve Your Foreign Language Immediately_ by Bois Shekhtman that I assume is a complete presentation of his ideas. I did a search for this title online. I found a pdf for sale on his site www.languageimmediately.com. I paid $9.99, and got a link to a pdf from them in about an hour. In the mean time, I found a similar (actually more complete) pdf with the same name at http://www.mysltc.com/PDF/How%20to%20improve%20your%20foreig n%20language.pdf . I'm not sure if the second, free link is legal or not, but it is there.
steve 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 85 of 175 01 April 2012 at 9:02pm | IP Logged |
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I think I can paraphrase Shekhtman without damaging his copyright.
I was not equally impressed with all of his ideas, so I'll just talk about the ones I plan to act on. Give long answers to questions Which is a better way to conduct a conversation as a foreigner (F) talking to a native (N)? N: Are you single? F:No. N:Do you have children? F:Yes. N:How many? F:Two. N:How old are they? F:20 and 5. If I were N, I would try to get away from this conversation. It is too much like an interrogation. If I were F, I would be sweating about getting hit with a new question every couple of seconds. Sooner of later I'm going to be stumped. Unfortunately, this is most of what we learn in beginning language texts. This would be much more fun for the native speaker (and the foreigner). N:Are you single? F:No; my wife and I have been married 21 years. She's from the Philippines. We've got two kids. My son is 20 years old. He's working as an emergency medical technician and he is training to be a firefighter and paramedic. My daughter is 5; she is in kindergarten and she studies ballet. My wife is a teacher in the same school district where I teach. What about you? Are you married? N:Me married? You've got to be kidding! I love my freedom.... A connected strategy is "building islands". If you are down at the A1/A2 level, you are on shaky ground when you try to build up sentences "real time" during a conversation. How much better to have 20 or 30 topics that you can speak a paragraph or two on. We do this in our native language also. The particular "islands" you build depend on you and your interests. I would certainly build islands about amateur astronomy, port wine, and my family's genealogy. If you build your island like a newspaper article, general to specific, you can stop at any point you think is appropriate for your conversation. He also recommends different strategies for switching the topic from something you can't talk about to something you can talk about, probably one of your islands. When you are stuck in a topic where you have to create sentences real time, he recommends that you stick strictly to simple, well known grammar and vocabulary. The overall impression of your language will be better if you use simple language than if you try to use "all you know" and make mistakes. He also recommends learning strategies for making it appear that you are following what the native speaker is saying, even when you are completely lost. Nods, smiles, "uh huh" "yes" "I see." If you can keep the native speaker going, you probably will eventually figure out what is going on. If you can't, or if you don't like what you finally figure out, just leap on to one of your islands and change the subject. Shekhtman has many other ideas, which I may appreciate more after I think I about them, so I recommend you read his original work. Shekhtman's ideas seem brilliant to me. It could potentially make you sound much better in your target language without actually learning any more language. steve 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 86 of 175 02 April 2012 at 6:08am | IP Logged |
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Assimil Spanish with Ease shadowing wave Lesson 20.
I feel like I'm getting less benefit out of shadowing my "new" lesson many times the first time I cover it, so I've cut back on this. I'm doing the first few steps in the "Dutch Instructions" to remind myself of the meaning of the "new" lesson.I'm shadowing each lesson for about 15 days and then going translating the oldest lesson first L2->L1 and L1->L2 and doing the exercises. To do this the way Luca recommends, I should wait a few days between the L2->L1 translation and the L1->L2 translation. So right now I'm planning to do this: Lesson 1 read aloud then translate L1->L2 Lesson 8 read aloud then translate L2->L1, do exercises Lesson 15 read aloud, then repeat sentences aloud without looking at L2 Lesson 22 do first part of dutch instructions a)listen and read L2(I'm adding the L2 reading to this step) b)listen and read L1 c)read aloud check L1 and notes d)read aloud e)listen and read L2 f)listen and read L1 g)listen Lesson 8-22 shadow using L2 or L1 text if needed steve Edited by sfuqua on 02 April 2012 at 6:08am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 87 of 175 04 April 2012 at 6:48am | IP Logged |
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Assimil Spanish with Ease shadowing lesson 22
I'm finding the whole "islands" strategy to be useful for interacting with native speakers. Since everybody would have different things that they would like to be able to talk about, I suppose that these can't really be worked into a language course. It's too bad, because it's pretty useful for A1/A2 people. I'm still learning some things from Assimil the third time through. Either Assimil is very good, or I'm not :) steve 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4763 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 88 of 175 04 April 2012 at 3:30pm | IP Logged |
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I'm going to keep plugging away at Assimil one lesson a day. This stuff is pretty easy; I'm starting to get hungry to start reading a book or some other big chunk of native material.
If I'm 22 lessons into Assimil, then I'm 147 lessons from the the end of Assimil Using Spanish. If this time through, I can keep up the one lesson a day, I'm only four months away from "C1" :) I will spend as much time as I need on each lesson; if they get too hard to complete in one day, I'll slow down. steve 1 person has voted this message useful |
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