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French verb conjugations - best way ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| The-teacher Newbie Canada Joined 4471 days ago 17 posts - 21 votes Studies: English* | Message 1 of 10 31 August 2012 at 5:11am | IP Logged | ||
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Hey all, I was hoping to ask this quick question that I've been thinking about - learning French verb
conjugations and what is the best way to learn the tenses. So I thought a few possible options to learn them are: 1) straight up rote memorization and repeated writing over and over 2) hope to assimilate them over time by reading, listening, watching shows 3) French verb worksheets many many times 4) anki Any general input for what has helped you learn French verb conjugations would be appreciated! The-teacher(also a student) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6660 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 2 of 10 31 August 2012 at 5:24am | IP Logged | ||
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A combination is often nice. Rote memorization is boring, but sometimes it's practical. Try not to get bored.
Boredom kills motivation. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Heriotza Groupie Dominican Republic Joined 4681 days ago 48 posts - 71 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 3 of 10 31 August 2012 at 6:09am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm using Assimil for French and I'm almost done with the passive way. What I have found helpful when it comes to learning French verbs conjugation models is to look for the logic behind the endings of each particular tense. For example, the future for the four conjugations has the same endings as the present tense of the verb 'avoir'. The conditional has the same ending as the imperfect and so on. The keys is to reduce each tense to a simple rule and stablish relations among the tenses and the different models. For irregular verbs, the best approach is to first master the regular models and then write each irregular verb table down, trying to see how well or bad each conjugation fits in the regular models. After that, only comprehensible input can take you farther. Edited by Heriotza on 31 August 2012 at 6:18am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 10 31 August 2012 at 7:34am | IP Logged | ||
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I prefer the the classical way by doing grammar excercises in textbooks and workbooks and by checking the correct forms in my "PONS Verb Tables" as often as it is necessary.
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 31 August 2012 at 7:35am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4658 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 10 31 August 2012 at 8:19am | IP Logged | ||
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For French conjugation, I would look up the Michel Thomas course - beginner and advanced. It will teach you the logic behind the endings etc. Failing this, look for grammar overview in dictionaries or language courses.
Then, unfortunately, you have to continue learning. I am not sure how far you are in your French. Be sure you master the "holy trinity of verbs" - to have, to be, to go. As often, these are irregulars :) Next, there are the useful verbs of "can, must, may ..." and such. What works for me is to run quickly to the rote memorization of the few first verbs. There are lists available for 25 most frequent verbs - look it up. Don't tackle all of them at once, but it is nice to have an idea about which verbs can wait a little. After memorization, there is usually one form which won't stick. This one goes on flashcard. For me, for some reason, the worst one is still "nous faisons". I know it, I can use it, but it doesn't come out effortlessly. For another verb, the problematic person would be different. Flashcards (physical or Anki): the most efficient way but creating the biggest number of flashcards is for each form and person own flashcards. You don't want to be stuck in the need to run mentally through a whole conjugation table to fish out the one form you are looking for. If you end with extremely easy flashcards, weed them out completely. These are the verbs and forms you won't forget - they repeat too often in real life to need them repeated on a flashcard too. Reading: choose a verb and go fishing - when reading, underline each and every form of this verb you see in the text. Alternatively, choose a form (for example imparfait) and look for this form in a text (all the verbs). The problem with reading is that it is easy to overlook details. We would register the pronoun and the verb, but the exact form is easy to overlook. Listening and writing (transcription): For French conjugation, it is quite useful to transcribe audio. There are many endings that are not spoken. When we need to write, we have to concentrate on them. When transcribing, there is no added complication of the need to formulate on our own, the text is already given. Another tip - learn verbs including the governing preposition. When repeating, every time form a short and simple sentence. It is easier to learn it in the beginning with the verb than going back when you notice your mistakes. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5392 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 6 of 10 31 August 2012 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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I studied French in school so I learned my verbs mainly through drill - both oral and written through homework and frequent quizzes filling in conjugation tables. Drill can definitely be useful so if you can start a habit to do so a bit, it ought to help.
With Spanish I started with Michel Thomas and Madrigal's Magical Key (there's a version for French but it's sadly out of print) which both present verbs in a systemic way. I then started work with Assimil which works on a more passive level. With Assimil and the exercises in Madrigal's, to reinforce verb conjugations I would repeat sentences out loud, point, and visualize who I was talking to/about. For second person I'd point in front of me and picture either a peer for tú or an older, distinguished person or a service employee for usted. For first person I'd point to myself or would wave my hand around to indicate someone else with me. I'd do the same with third person. This has helped me associate the conjugations with who I would use them to talk about. Sometimes there are example sentences that are odd and this is what makes drills so frustrating and boring. I read them and think, "When would I ever say that?" and then I do just that - think of when I would indeed say that. This gets me working a lot on my visuals, coming up with some kind of back story, doing a little acting and putting some emotion into it with a likely tone of voice I'd use. This helps make the sample sentences that would seem like nonsense actually become some of the most vivid ones. And so what seems stilted and unnatural comes alive. For all the past tenses, remember that they are the tenses of narration and story-telling. And so to really get them down you ought to start writing stories (either from your own experience or fiction). There's something called "concordance des temps" which stipulates fixed relations these tenses have with each other when you use them to narrate. And so working on them in isolation to learn the endings has it's use, the real task is being able to use them together correctly which you will have to practice and get a feel for. Part of studying this should include "reported speech" which works like a mathematical formula: "He said that he had already seen it/already saw it..." "You said that you would be..." "I thought that he was..." etc. For conditional and conditional statements remember that these are often used to express regret ("If I had only...I would have...") or relief ("I could have been killed if it weren't/wasn't for her!") so they're statements that are loaded with quite a bit of emotion. Visualizing works well here also. If you get a set of drills to do or sentences taken out of context, picture them in context with the emotion and the tone of voice someone would be using to make them more natural and to help make them stick. Like the past tenses, the relations between tenses are pretty fixed so practice the patterns. And in a conditional statement, remember you never put the conditional after the "si" part (according to some teachers of mine apparently the French beat their kids to break them of this habit if they do it. Okay, that's an exaggeration but they drill that into them pretty firmly). For subjunctive I can just say don't freak out. Drill the set phrases (Il est dommage que, Il faut que, Je suis content(e) que, etc). Work on the others little by little until it becomes habit. Take care to notice it when you read/listen. And it's no big deal if you have to look up a rule every once in a while. And for most regular verbs in the singular and third person plural there is no real difference from the indicative and since you use the "on" form for "nous" when speaking it's even easier. For the literary tenses (passé simple et al), really don't freak out. You barely need to study this. Just learn to recognize them, especially the major irregular ones (être especially as it's barely recognizable) and just read and enjoy. You most likely will never need to produce them yourself.
I think a teacher I had once said that future and conditional used to be compound tenses like passé composé until the auxiliary moved to the end instead (haven't confirmed that). Another help for identifying these tenses: the "r" sound at the end. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5533 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 10 31 August 2012 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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You certainly can learn most of your verb conjugations through Assimil and exposure (I
did). This will work fine for the present tense, the common irregular verbs, irregular past participles, and the other mostly-regular common tenses. But you will learn this stuff faster if you make some flashcards or something, and pay close attention to verb endings during your Assimil lessons and your reading. Exposure works better when you notice things. Also, don't try to learn the complete conjugation tables of verbs right now. Focus only on the tenses that you actually need. For example, you won't need the passé simple until you want to want to read fiction books. And even native speakers often have trouble conjugating the imparfait du subjonctif, which is almost entirely dead in modern writing (and which would sound really bizarre in speech). Don't stress about irregular verbs. You'll pick most of the necessary ones up through exposure. And your spell-checker will help with the some of the others. Focus on the regular verbs and a handful of really common irregulars, like être, faire and aller. And as quite a few people have mentioned: Look for patterns. There's a huge amount of logic to the conjugation tables. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| The-teacher Newbie Canada Joined 4471 days ago 17 posts - 21 votes Studies: English* | Message 8 of 10 31 August 2012 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Wow thanks so much - you guys are a wealth of information and knowledge, much appreciated!
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