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Icelandic and Dutch at the same time | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4292 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 17 of 29 02 November 2013 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was in Den Haag for holiday in 2009. I must have committed some fairly serious
grammatical errors, because quite often when I tried to communicate in Dutch, the response(s) thereafter was in English. Even in the Indonesische restaurant, they responded in English. But perhaps this was due to because I lodged in the tourist zone, I think somewhere near Koningskade and Den Haagsche Bosch. However, when I took the tram to Scheveningen, I had some more opportunities to communicate. I suppose I was not persistent enough, since if they switched to English, I would just think, "Bollocks, not again". Maybe living in the very residential areas helps foreigners. But I always wondered what happens, e.g., if a foreigner's English is worse than the Dutch, for example if someone speaks Spanish, Vietnamese, any , or any language not English, what happens if their Dutch is B1 and English A1 or A2 at most, or even A0. If they switched to English for them, they would have more problems than if they continued in Dutch. Edited by 1e4e6 on 02 November 2013 at 10:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6599 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 29 02 November 2013 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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In a youtube vid Richard Simcott and Alex Rawlings (both great polyglots) were discussing their languages and they agreed that it's become easier to practise Dutch in the Netherlands than it used to be. Benny Lewis ("fluency in 3 months" blog) seems to have had the same experience. (Just my guess, but maybe more and more people have to use English at work, so nowadays they are relieved to speak Dutch? And the scope of people who speak English because they want to practise it must also be shrinking)
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 19 of 29 02 November 2013 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | ||
There's that but it's also your pronunciation. Anglophone accent = we get very lazy and don't bother. Work on your r sound and don't aspire your stops... Edited by tarvos on 02 November 2013 at 11:41pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 4049 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 20 of 29 03 November 2013 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you guys for your advices! I will do it. I just started to order in Dutch in cafes
and restaurants, the problems are when they ask something back, then I'm the first who needs to switch in English :) But I'm studying so I will get everyday better and better. I'm using the Pimsleur, unlickily there is only the first phase... what do you advice me to use once finished phase 1? Assimil? And, being Italian (from the north) I have the impression that by studying I will have to struggle less with Dutch pronunciation than with English one (that for me it's like a mistery, since I don't hear not one single person to talk it with the same accent and pronouncing the words in the same way). @Tarvos, where do you live (just as curiosity)? In Leiden? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 21 of 29 03 November 2013 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Nah. I live close to Delft in a village. But don't go to Delft, it's all foreign
students (and dudes - engineering university...)... unless you like history of course, then by all means go there (it is picturesque as hell.) I have been to Leiden many times though. Although I really hate the accent. Dutch pronunciation isn't hard except for the "g/ch" sound, the vowels, and the melody. It also follows more logically from the spelling (although local pronunciation can obfuscate things a bit, especially if you're in the east somewhere). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4705 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 22 of 29 03 November 2013 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | ||
Yay good luck! Veel succes :-) Edited by Hekje on 03 November 2013 at 7:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4292 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 23 of 29 03 November 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I do not think Italian have the Dutch g sound, which since I do not know IPA am not sure
what it is called, but basically I have to close my nose when I sound it and then exhale hard, and the ch which is like g without the strong exhale. But I think for for Romance language speakers, it could possibly be comparable to a strong northern Peninsular Spanish "j" like in <jamón> sounding like "khhamón", or some European Portuguese speakers using a strong "r" like in "rio", sounding like "khhio", if that helps. At least you are not a native English speaker like me, and probably have more opportunities to speak. Edited by 1e4e6 on 03 November 2013 at 9:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 4049 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 24 of 29 04 November 2013 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||
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@tarvos, really lovely, delft :) Also haagse accent is assolutely terrible and it
sounds completely different from what I hear in the audio lessons (sometimes all you can hear is GGGGSCHZZZZSCHGGGGGGGGG for 2/3 words in a row :D) I don't know about leiden's accent how it sounds... @1e4e6: Italian doesn't have the dutch 'g' and 'ch' sounds, of course, but I'm not scared by them. Also, from what I know most native English speakers have a lot of difficult to pronounce "ui", things that sounds natural to me because it's like an italian 'a' plus a french 'u' (that is present in my dialect). Also in Italian we are used to roll the 'r' (that has a weaker sound in Dutch), while I imagine can be really difficult for native English speakers, at the beginning). I'm more scared by the difference between the 'v' and the 'f' the seems to me like the difference between the English 'f' and 'th' (that I never managed to pronounce properly. to me a 'th' depending by which word is a 'd' or a 'f'. other tremendously difficult to me is pronounce properly the 'h' in English in words that start with this letter). Also, since English has 16 vowels sounds (right?) and Italian only 7, I guess that English speakers have huge advantage to learn how to prounounce vowels properly. Edited by tristano on 04 November 2013 at 1:24am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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