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Czech, Polish, Greek? case heavy langs | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| samfrances Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4054 days ago 81 posts - 110 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 25 of 38 01 November 2013 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What topics are included in "issues that I are not supposed to be discussed here", out of curiosity? Just so I can avoid breaking forum etiquette. Edited by samfrances on 01 November 2013 at 5:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 26 of 38 02 November 2013 at 8:45am | IP Logged | |||||
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politics, religion and themes that almost certainly will lead to a general brawl
3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6599 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 27 of 38 02 November 2013 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
nominative genitive dative accusative instrumental prepositional 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4246 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 28 of 38 02 November 2013 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well that is the traditional way really. BTW I'm going to segue briefly into some
philological history so if this bores people I really am sorry! So even by Dionysios Thrax the Greeks are using: NOM,GEN,DAT,ACC and VOC in that order. The Romans, probably after Crates but we can't be sure adopted the order but simply added their ablativus so you get NOM,GEN,DAT,ACC,VOC and ABL. As time goes on the Romans re-order ABL and VOC, probably due to native Roman advances in grammatical theory. You might be interested to know that Indian grammarians ordered Sanskrit cases as follows: NOM, ACC, INS(trumental), DAT, ABL, GEN and LOC(ative) where VOC was either last or after NOM depending. Though obviously there are quite a few variations, like GEN coming after NOM this is generally it. From an early time certain Northern European publishers have favoured a NOM ACC GEN system, for example the Danish Philologist Johan Madvig. The idea being it is that it is easier because in the neuter the nom and acc are the same and the VOC is rare. It's a false friend though, devoid of any attention to either vowel length or how the cases developed in Greek and Latin. I suppose it can sometimes be helpful but learning cases isn't hard anyway so.. Sorry for the digression. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 29 of 38 02 November 2013 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the digression, which I found extremely relevant for this discussion.
In the Slavic languages the Accusative take its forms either from the Nominative or from from the Genitive, and that's my main reason for preferring the order Nominative, Accusative, Genitive .... It is most of all a coincidence that I also learnt German and Latin using Danish resources with that order, but when I saw that it also suited the Slavic languages like a glove I decided to stick with it - and if necessary rewrite any tables I see with other orders, unless there is a good reason to change it in a language which I haven't learnt yet. Edited by Iversen on 02 November 2013 at 3:12pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 30 of 38 02 November 2013 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not always. For example BSCM вода - воду, градови - градове. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| samfrances Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4054 days ago 81 posts - 110 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 31 of 38 04 November 2013 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I suppose this thread sums up something of what I was asking, although the scope of my question was limited to case-heavy languages, esp. Polish, Czech, Greek, but also expanded to films and other forms of culture.
Books worth learning a language for http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=23876&PN=1 (apologies, the forum won't let me create a hyperlink) Edited by samfrances on 04 November 2013 at 2:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| pesahson Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5730 days ago 448 posts - 840 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 32 of 38 13 November 2013 at 8:47am | IP Logged | |||||
If you want to check out some Polish writers I recommend a couple of names: Bruno Schultz (short stories, I'm pretty sure they're unlike anything you've ever read because he's utterly original) Olga Tokarczuk (Primeval and Other Times) Witold Gombrowicz (a modernist, worthy but might be not everyone's cup of tea) Sapkowski (fantasy) Stanisław Lem (sci-fi) Krajewski (crime fiction)
I don't find those reasons to be superficial at all. That's basically how I choose languages. :) I'm glad you enjoy your experiences with Slavic languages. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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