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English have vs got | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Sepp Diglot Newbie Portugal Joined 4052 days ago 8 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English, Portuguese | Message 9 of 15 21 December 2013 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Changing "the lesson today" to "today's lesson" would help in sentences 1 and 2, and 4 at a pinch. [Sentence 3 doesn't make much sense unless we know what lesson you're talking about: English, that boring lesson, the one you're supposed to have prepared but haven't yet......]
Now, maybe it's just me, but I haven't ever come across those constructions. Especially the one with the frabjous "had have to have had". Did you really ask that mind-boggling question? And how did your acquaintance react? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5832 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 10 of 15 21 December 2013 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
These 2 sentences are meaningless and are totally wrong grammatically. Are you an actual native speaker of English? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 11 of 15 21 December 2013 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well yeah it kinda looks as if gotten is some remote participle or something :-) gotten isn't any further away in time than got, so something's wrong if you can't replace it.
As for the book thing, wouldn't it be better to say something like: "You must have needed to get this book in stock today?" 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| MixedUpCody Senior Member United States Joined 5256 days ago 144 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 12 of 15 21 December 2013 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In my dialect, which is from the South West US, I would use "got" in various forms when speaking, but I would never write it outside of dialog or a situation like this. For me, these constructions are the most common:
"Do you understand?" "Yea, I got it." "Did you receive the email?" "Yea, I got it." "Can you handle this?" "Yea, I got it." I would also use all of those constructions with "I've" instead of "I", but for possession, it feels weird to just say "I" and I would only use "I've" unless I was imitating another dialect. So: "Do you own a TV?" "Yea, I've got one." In writing I would use verbs like "have" or "understand" depending on the context. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4290 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 13 of 15 21 December 2013 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
"No, next Wednesday." He is Danish, so not a native English speaker, but they have very high English skills anyway. The combination "You have had to have gotten..." usually implies strong probability or duty/obligation that may or may not have occurred, i.e., "England have had to have had gotten a win in Perth last week"--something absolutely imperative that should have happened, which sadly did not happen. Edited by 1e4e6 on 21 December 2013 at 8:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4032 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 14 of 15 21 December 2013 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Double perfects aren't uncommon in dialects.
I know only two which seem to exist where I'm at; I have never heard what 1e4e6 claimed to have heard. They are both conditional: I would have V to have If I had've The second one is interesting since the usual word order (have had) is reversed. Have-got reminds me of compound words in Mandarin. Like Kanjian which is used together to avoid homonym trouble. I would write it as havegot if I were permitted. heh. Edited by Stolan on 21 December 2013 at 8:56pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| DaisyMaisy Senior Member United States Joined 5380 days ago 115 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish Studies: Swedish, Finnish | Message 15 of 15 28 December 2013 at 5:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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"You had have to have had gotten this book in stock today, yes?" - sounds awkward to me. Are you meaning it in the sense of, "oh, a new book! You have to have gotten this today, right?". Which still sounds weird; "you must have gotten this today" sounds much better. Or is it expressing a kind of conditional, "you would have had to have gotten this today, or it wouldn't be sitting in a pile of books on the counter"? Isn't it funny how everything starts to sound wrong if you think about it too much? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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