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The dark side of language dominance | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4443 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes  Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 25 of 176 29 May 2014 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Historically in Latin America the Spanish & Portuguese forced millions to adopt the Catholic faith and
learn their languages. The Mayans who kept their knowledge in books that were burned until more recently their language has been deciphered. In various parts of the world 1 or several languages dominate for practical reasons. In Africa & India the people still recognize few European languages as official because they have too many ethnic groups speaking many languages. You wouldn't make 1 local language the official and cause anger among others because their languages are not chosen as the official. In many countries in W. Africa you have French as the uniting factor across many countries where the people would have trouble talking to one another in neighbouring countries. In China with a large population they managed to introduce Mandarin as the official "dialect" in a country where every region has their own local dialects. At least the population around the country can communicate with each other. Edited by shk00design on 02 June 2014 at 2:34am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4081 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 26 of 176 29 May 2014 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Why? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5374 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 27 of 176 29 May 2014 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Are there any places where people are forced to learn English nowadays? (I don't mean school "requirements"... I mean literally forced through some sort of state punishment if they refuse). Or, is essentially everyone now voluntarily learning English because they think it will make them better off than without English?
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| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4368 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 28 of 176 29 May 2014 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In all honesty, English "dominance" has always bothered me, just because I've seen it as a detriment to my own ability to learn languages. But I wonder if it's really as dominant as is typically assumed.
When I was on vacation a few weeks ago, there were a lot of people who had limited English ability, including younger western Europeans (from Germany). I saw on more than one awkward encounter between guests and resort workers trying to speak with each other in very basic English. Even in the airport, where you would think the English level would be higher, it still wasn't that well-spoken; at least, it was limited enough that I asked twice about the seating assignment and then gave up after I realized there was a communication issue. As far as English-speaking ideologies being forced by the dominance of English, I suppose that's possible--language media does to a certain extent reflect the culture in which it's produced. I don't know how likely it would be to cause a major large-scale change though. I definitely wouldn't say English speaking countries have the same cultural perspectives (even within the US I could count at least four different regional "cultures" which have very little to do with language). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4289 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 29 of 176 29 May 2014 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
Continental Europe, barring Gibraltar which actually is not even a country but rather a colony, have no native Anglophone country, nor a country where English is even an official language. Why would English deserve such a high position where no one even speaks it natively? Also, some (not I), believe that the UK are not in Europe, despite Iceland, Greenland, and the Færoe Islands being considered Europe. Were this the case, that means that English deserves much less status than it currently has. Also, should I have children, I would refuse to teach them English. I wish that a movement to boycott the teaching of English commences, especially in places that already have some semblance thereof--Latin America and Spain and Portugal in particular, are not the most ready to stop their languages and change to English, and I must commend them therefore. However, I doubt that the main reason for Latin America's refusal to adopt Anglophone culture and language and submit thereto, is due to things such as English being an overly simplified language or Hollywood, rather Anglophone imperialism, specifically, the U.S.-backed fascist dictatorships in Latin America, and the UK imperialism via the Falklands, Anglo-American oil, etc. I know that in Chile, there is a reason why (a) English is not regarded as important but rather as an imperialism imposition, like the rest of Latin America, and (b) the Communist and Socialist Parties have strong followings. I followed the Chilean Presidential Election and Parliamentary Elections last year. These two Diputadas del Partido Comunista, who are only one year older than I, won seats in Parliament in Chile last year, 40 years after the U.S.-backed imperialist imposition of Pinochet and the overthrow of Allende. Multiply this by 11, add the Falklands, and why would anyone in Latin America have sympathy towards Anglophone language, much less the culture? I would not expect, "You took the resources from my country, implanted an severe right-wing fascist dictator(s) who ruled for more than two decades, use corporations to guide my national government, but sure, I shall learn your language and embrace your culture." I have been switched many times to English, but one region wherein I have never been switched is the Hispanophone world. Either they cannot speak English or they might have refused to, viewing it as an imperialist language. There must also be a reason why Socialist leaders that are not keen on expanding globalist Anglophone ideals are in power in Latin America, viz. Rafael Correa (Ecuador), José (Pepe) Mujica (Uruguay), Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (Argentina), Michelle Bachelet (Chile), Nicolás Maduro (and formerly, Hugo Chávez) (Venezuela), Dilma Rousseff (and formerly Lula) (Brasil), Daniel Ortega (Nicaragua), and of course the most famous, Fidel Castro (Cuba). Edited by 1e4e6 on 29 May 2014 at 9:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4664 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 30 of 176 29 May 2014 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Sometimes I feel like commending the countries that still show a strong resistance to English, but at the same time it would feel a bit perverse for me to do so, since that resistance may not be in their best economic interest. But it is indeed kind of goofy that English should emerge as a universal "European" language when it is spoken natively by just one country -- and not the most populated or economically powerful one, at that. Edited by tastyonions on 29 May 2014 at 9:27pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4289 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 31 of 176 29 May 2014 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I shall add that I fail to understand what the obsession with Anglophone films and
television is. The last time that I had went to a cinema and watched Anglophone movies was in 1997, when I saw both Titanic and some Mr Bean film (the one wherein he had diarrhoea). I cannot stand any Anglophone movies thereafter, nor television. The only exception is cricket, which basically is only broadcast in English.
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| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4081 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 32 of 176 29 May 2014 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
So much English hate by native English speakers!
The reason for the rise of English is not UK, but USA. If USA was French speaking, French would have been dominant around the world. The phenomenon of a universal language getting that status due to other communities is not unusual. Hindi is often a language medium between communities none of which speak it in India. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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